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Russwin & Corbin keyways

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
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Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 11 Mar 2013 22:54

I am new to the forum. I take a deep interest in looks and door hardware of all kinds, particulary those of historical significance.

My question today is; I have noticed that many older buildings built in the 1950s, 60s , and 70s have hardware by Russwin or Corbin. The keys and locks say either RUSSWIN or CORBIN on them rather than the combined CorbinRusswin logo used today. The keyways are also diffrent. Today the keyway is Ilco: A1012-59c1 and Jet: 59c1-6 In previous years a Russwin keyway had ilco: A1011d1 and Jet: RU46.

What brought about this change in the Russwin/Corbin keyways?? For clarification; I am asking why keyways such as; RU46, RU45, C088, C089, etc are no longer offered??? It appears that all keyways are marketed as CorbinRusswin with the; A1012-59c1 keyway being used.

Thank you for any clarification that you can provide regarding my question.
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby MacGyver101 » 12 Mar 2013 0:29

Both companies have had long histories; here's what I can shed on the various corporate mergers:

Russwin
  • 1853: Henry Russell and Cornelius Erwin form the Russell & Erwin Manufacturing Company
  • 1875: Russell & Erwin start releasing hardware under the brand Russwin

Corbin
  • 1849: Philip Corbin, Frank Corbin and Ed Doen form Doen, Corbin & Company
  • 1849: Ed Doen replaced by Henry W. Whiting (Philip Corbin's father-in-law) and the company is renamed Corbin, Whiting & Company
  • 1852: Company renamed to P. & F. Corbin
  • 1854: Merger with North & Stanley results in an incorporated P. & F. Corbin Corporation
  • 1882: Corbin's cabinet lock department was split off to form a separate Corbin Cabinet Lock Company

Corbin Russwin
  • 1902: P. & F. Corbin and Russel & Erwin merge to form the American Hardware Corporation, but continue manufacturing hardware under separate Corbin and Russwin names
  • 1908: Trademark officially issued for Russwin locks
  • 1957: One notable acquisition: American Hardware Corporation acquired Kwikset Lock Inc.
  • 1964: American Hardware Corporation was acquired by Emhart Corporation
  • 1989: Emhart Corporation was acquired by Black & Decker
  • 1990: Black & Decker combined the Corbin and Russwin brands into Corbin Russwin
  • 2000: Corbin Russwin acquired by ASSA Abloy
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 12 Mar 2013 0:50

Thank you for providing the information!

What about the keyways??? My main question remains unanswered.

Why are the traditional Russwin keyways; RU46, C088, etc no longer offered??? When did this change occur???

Thank you for any information.
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby Sinifar » 12 Mar 2013 8:08

Normally, there is an assortment of keyways available to the trade. A1011 L4 is the current Russwin, and Z1 - 60, A1001EH is the current Corbin unit. These are the current keyways which one sees when ordering this series of locks.

There are more available to the trade for retro fitting, Z1-59A1 / A1001AH is occasionally seen, and going back Russwin 981, and A1011 D1 are the past ones.

More on order if you need them. You can get those thru any locksmith supplier, either in C-500 Universal KIK / deadbolt cylinders, or rim and mortise locks. Most of those will retro fit into most locksets.

However - always remember there are specific cylinders for some of the older Corbin - Russwin locks, which nothing fits, except their cylinders. (440 russwin comes to mind)

This is why today most use LSDA, Marks, Cal Royal, or Dorma locks as replacements. ALL good substitutes for the originals, and all can take any retro cylinder.

Sargent as well has it own cylinders, so unless it is the current ones made by Arrow rebranded as Sargent - you need the specific cylinder for it.

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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby Squelchtone » 12 Mar 2013 8:14

sheldonl wrote:Thank you for providing the information!

What about the keyways??? My main question remains unanswered.

Why are the traditional Russwin keyways; RU46, C088, etc no longer offered??? When did this change occur???

Thank you for any information.


Do you mean no longer offered by Russwin or by anyone? You can still get those blanks (generic ones) pretty much anywhere, but it may not be profitable for Russin, Corbin or ASSA Abloy to mint thousands of blanks for some old locks from 1930. Their business model is to sell you new locks, and keep relatively old ones in working order, but I wouldn't expect them to keep making new blanks for every keyway they ever produced.

Here's an ESP RU46 blank http://www.mrlock.com/RU46.html
Here's a JMA CO88 blank http://www.mrlock.com/COR9E.html

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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby jeffmoss26 » 12 Mar 2013 8:20

Just so you know, what you are calling keyways are actually blank numbers.
The actual Corbin Russwin keyway IS something like 59A1, 59A2, 67, 77, 60...
As the others have said, blanks are available from the aftermarket suppliers, I rarely use OEM Corbin blanks.
Over the years, Corbin Russwin have changed their stock keyways.
The Corbin Russwin Cylinder Manual (on their website) is a tremendous reference that has helped me a great deal.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 12 Mar 2013 11:58

jeffmoss26 wrote:Just so you know, what you are calling keyways are actually blank numbers.
The actual Corbin Russwin keyway IS something like 59A1, 59A2, 67, 77, 60...
As the others have said, blanks are available from the aftermarket suppliers, I rarely use OEM Corbin blanks.
Over the years, Corbin Russwin have changed their stock keyways.


I'm am not refering to key blanks. I know there a wide variety available at any locksmith.

Whay I am asking about is when did Russwin discontinue the RU46/a1011d1 keyways on NEW hardware (locks, deadbolts, etc) that is being manufactured and sold to the public???I suppose you would refer to this as the "stock" keyways?

Currently it appears that L4/a1011 is the standard keyway offered on NEW russwin hardware today. What happened to the previous variety of keyways including; RU46, RU45, C088, RU53 etc
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby jeffmoss26 » 12 Mar 2013 12:22

Here is the Cylinder Manual I mentioned in my previous post.
http://www.locksmithingeducation.com/CR ... Manual.pdf

It states that when Corbin and Russwin merged in 1993, L4 replaced Corbin 60 and Russwin D1 as the stock keyway.
D1 was the Russwin stock keyway beginning in 1965, 60 was Corbin's stock keyway beginning in 1960.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 12 Mar 2013 12:27

jeffmoss26 wrote:Here is the Cylinder Manual I mentioned in my previous post.
http://www.locksmithingeducation.com/CR ... Manual.pdf

It states that when Corbin and Russwin merged in 1993, L4 replaced Corbin 60 and Russwin D1 as the stock keyway.
D1 was the Russwin stock keyway beginning in 1965, 60 was Corbin's stock keyway beginning in 1960.


Thank you. When exactly was the keyway: RU46/a1011d1, phased out on newly sold hardware?? I am curious because my school was built in 1954 and the master key system consists of hardware with this keyway.

Thank you for your help!
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby jeffmoss26 » 12 Mar 2013 12:33

That, I do not know. The manual simply states what I paraphrased above.
The D1 keyway was not introduced until 1965.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 12 Mar 2013 12:51

jeffmoss26 wrote:The D1 keyway was not introduced until 1965.


Does the "D1 Keyway" refer to the RU46 keyway??? Because I have seen hardware with advertisements for Russwin hardware in this sytem dating back to the early 1960s late 50s.

If there are any longtime experienced lockmiths here, who recall the changes in hardware through the years, please share your insight! Thank you very much
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby Squelchtone » 12 Mar 2013 12:57

sheldonl wrote:
Thank you. When exactly was the keyway: RU46/a1011d1, phased out on newly sold hardware??


hey bro, chill. I'm not a fan of all the ????????? at the end of your sentences or the pushy tone. We are not psychic to know exactly "what you mean" and we are not ASSA Abloy or Russwin or Corbin. This is an internet forum for lock hobbyists, not a free 1-800-ask-a-locksmith line.

Please call ASSA Abloy if its such a big deal for you. Like I already said, nothing lasts forever, and for you to expect they still have cylinders, knobsets and deadbolts for your 1954 system and keyway is asking a little too much of today's corporate lock manufacturers.

Be kind to the forum members, they're being more than helpful to you.

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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby sheldonl » 12 Mar 2013 13:11

squelchtone wrote:
sheldonl wrote:
Thank you. When exactly was the keyway: RU46/a1011d1, phased out on newly sold hardware??


hey bro, chill. I'm not a fan of all the ????????? at the end of your sentences or the pushy tone. We are not psychic to know exactly "what you mean" and we are not ASSA Abloy or Russwin or Corbin. This is an internet forum for lock hobbyists, not a free 1-800-ask-a-locksmith line.

Please call ASSA Abloy if its such a big deal for you. Like I already said, nothing lasts forever, and for you to expect they still have cylinders, knobsets and deadbolts for your 1954 system and keyway is asking a little too much of today's corporate lock manufacturers.

Be kind to the forum members, they're being more than helpful to you.

Squelchtone
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I apologize. I was simply trying to highlight the main point of my question.
Perhaps, I should have stated that I am cuurently a senior in high school, who takes a great interest in historic hardware. I find it fascinating to research the variousbrands of locks, keys, and door hardware manufactured throughout the past decades.

Please keep in mind that I do greatly appreciate the help that has been offered here, so-far. I'm sure everyone would admit that there have been many diffrent types of hardware that have become obsolete over the years. Sometimes the obsolete hardware is the most interesting to learn about.

Thank you again for your continued help.....
Best.
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby Squelchtone » 12 Mar 2013 13:21

sheldonl wrote:
squelchtone wrote:
sheldonl wrote:
Thank you. When exactly was the keyway: RU46/a1011d1, phased out on newly sold hardware??


hey bro, chill. I'm not a fan of all the ????????? at the end of your sentences or the pushy tone. We are not psychic to know exactly "what you mean" and we are not ASSA Abloy or Russwin or Corbin. This is an internet forum for lock hobbyists, not a free 1-800-ask-a-locksmith line.

Please call ASSA Abloy if its such a big deal for you. Like I already said, nothing lasts forever, and for you to expect they still have cylinders, knobsets and deadbolts for your 1954 system and keyway is asking a little too much of today's corporate lock manufacturers.

Be kind to the forum members, they're being more than helpful to you.

Squelchtone
Site Administrator


I apologize. I was simply trying to highlight the main point of my question.
Perhaps, I should have stated that I am cuurently a senior in high school, who takes a great interest in historic hardware. I find it fascinating to research the variousbrands of locks, keys, and door hardware manufactured throughout the past decades.

Please keep in mind that I do greatly appreciate the help that has been offered here, so-far. I'm sure everyone would admit that there have been many diffrent types of hardware that have become obsolete over the years. Sometimes the obsolete hardware is the most interesting to learn about.

Thank you again for your continued help.....
Best.


It's all good, and don't worry, I get hung up on model numbers and specifics too. Sometimes I'll walk into a locksmith shop and ask for xyz and they look at me like I have 3 heads because what I call by the proper manufacturer name, they call that part whatever the locksmith before them taught them it was called.

I hope your persistence and tenacity pays off,
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Re: Russwin & Corbin keyways

Postby jeffmoss26 » 12 Mar 2013 13:26

To answer your last question, RU46 is the blank that corresponds with the D1 keyway.
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