Mystery lock - old or not?

[lockr]

Howdy folks. My mom was in Arizona and brought back this lock for me. Normally I collect only newer locks, so i'm really out of my element with locks that are (or look) old, so i'm wondering if anyone has seen something like this before. It looks like it's hand-made, there are no markings, but lots of nicks and dings and minor imperfections that seem to support that theory.

The lock operates almost too well, the action is smooth and it feels like it's been well cared for. Interestingly the cover over the keyway seems out of place, it looks like it's been made by casting. Anyhow i'm not an expert in this area and I'm not really sure what to make of this lock. Has anyone seen one of these before?

[LockDocWa]

I can't be sure of your padlock.
I picked up 4 of these at a swap-meet.
$10.00 each. I'm pretty sure mine are replicas.


****I can't seem to turn this photo right side up****




Five Levers??? on that key.......Where??


Yep it says ROLEX LOCK 5 Levers

[lockr]

Yep, lots of locks around that are made to look old. Those, with their markings are pretty suspicious =)

My lock, however, has no markings at all, and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't actually an old lock...

[IndigoChild]

We have a lot of old locks at my shop, some with markings, some without. The damage on that lock along with the wear makes me think its legitimately old. The cover only looks out of place because its a different metal. But many of ours have this same thing.

[GWiens2001]

She did not happen to pick it up in Tombstone, Arizona, did she? I have a lock exactly like that one in the opening. It was bought in Tombstone. I think it was $5. They have them 'mass produced'. Yes, hand made, but in the old style. Think mine even has the same bitting for the key. Will see if I can dig it out in the next few days and take a picture for you.

Gordon

[ARF-GEF]

I'd say it's newish.
Old locks rarely work "very smoothly" either because of rust or the built up grease oil and dirt. There are very few people who would have cleaned it well for it to remain dirt free on the inside for a long time and yet be rust free enough to work so smoothly. The grease-rust balance is very hard to find on a long term, and I don't think average people would maintain a lock so well.
But the key does look used.
So my bet is that it's fake-old. We see that rarely here in Europe.
I can't see the point in producing a not too good, battered padlock with cumbersome manual labour. Any idea why they do that?

An important question is where did your mum buy it? In a shop or at a flea market?

If you ever take it apart the insides will probably be more revealing as to the age of this padlock.

@lockdocwa: it seems the name Rolex only means quality when it comes to watches...

[lockr]

She did not happen to pick it up in Tombstone, Arizona, did she? I have a lock exactly like that one in the opening. It was bought in Tombstone. I think it was $5. They have them 'mass produced'. Yes, hand made, but in the old style. Think mine even has the same bitting for the key. Will see if I can dig it out in the next few days and take a picture for you.

Gordon, thanks, I suspected as much. If you could check on yours to confirm I would be grateful. I'll have to ask her exactly where she picked it up, but I do know she did visit Tombstone during her trip.

Old locks rarely work "very smoothly" either because of rust or the built up grease oil and dirt. There are very few people who would have cleaned it well for it to remain dirt free on the inside for a long time and yet be rust free enough to work so smoothly. The grease-rust balance is very hard to find on a long term, and I don't think average people would maintain a lock so well.
But the key does look used.

There were two things about this lock that raised suspicion for me, this one one of them. The action just doesn't "feel" like other old locks I have tried do. However, this isn't to say that someone spent some time cleaning and lubricating the mechanism; but it seems unlikely. The other concern was the cover over the keyway, which not only looks out of place but it's obviously cast from some cheap metal. So it seems that's either not an original part, or a give-away about the age of this lock.

[ARF-GEF]

Yeah, and it's not just that it's well lubricated now, it had to be well lubricated for a long time not to build up rust if it's genuinely old. I'm no sure about the air humidity levels in Arizona though.

[lockr]

Yeah, and it's not just that it's well lubricated now, it had to be well lubricated for a long time not to build up rust if it's genuinely old. I'm no sure about the air humidity levels in Arizona though.

I'm sure it's pretty dry there most of the time, but it's hard to say if the action seems smooth because it's actually a new lock that just looks old, or if it's been thoroughly cleaned and lubricated. Unfortunately I can't open it up to take a look since it's riveted, although if it's proven to not be an old lock i'm not entirely opposed to some minor surgery to take a look inside.

[ARF-GEF]

I agree,don't risk destroying an old lock.
It seems to have a big keyway though, you might try sneaking a peak though that. Play with the lighting, that's important with such manoeuvres.

[rphillips52]

'So my bet is that it's fake-old. We see that rarely here in Europe.
I can't see the point in producing a not too good, battered padlock with cumbersome manual labour. Any idea why they do that?'

Yes. Hand-made on a production line in some small workshop in Aligarh couple of months before you bought it, shipped by the container-load. They are made for separating US padlock collectors from their money - often lots of it, if the fantasy stamps are sufficiently enticing! No stamps bring a lower price, but it's easier and safer to flood masses of them on the market ... . They are rather rarer in Europe because British/European collectors scarcely buy them.
If you want a cheap padlock for privacy - you got it. Be aware the shackle is not hardened, and there is no rustproofing treatment applied.

[ARF-GEF]

Hi Rphilips, I'm sorry I can't really understand what you mean.
I'm sorry I'm not a native speaker.

First you say:

They are made for separating US padlock collectors from their money - often lots of it

then you say

If you want a cheap padlock for privacy - you got it.

for privacy?
I'm sorry I really can't understand what you mean. How is it good for privacy?

Anyway if they are new I'd say you are better off with even an American 5200, not to mention better padlocks like most abus-es.
It comes with a few yeears fo guarantee, it's probably more attack resistant and you know exactly what do you pay for.
Oh and you don't get scre*ed over by the fake-old cr*p...
But maybe I misunderstood what you wanted to say.

No offence at all aimed at you lockr, it's a nice lock to have, I just don't agree with it being useful. Or better said I don't agree with promoting fake-old stuff.
If you want old get real old if you want a real padlock get a real one. I can't see the point in getting theatre props for high price.
That's my personal opinion.
(Unless you are, as you lockr, a lock collector who is interested in the lock itself. In that case I do see the point in buying it, I too buy cheap chinese cr*p out of interest.)

[ARF-GEF]

Oh I missed one of my main points:
rphillips52 are you sure it's new and from Aligarh then or was that just an example?

[MacGyver101]

'Hand-made on a production line in some small workshop in Aligarh . . .

That would be my bet, as well. I'd picked up one of these locks (purportedly made in Aligarh) several years ago (middle of the box):

I see them on eBay all the time: the ones I've seen recently all look to be the same make of lock -- either with a plate affixed to the front that claims to be from Alcatraz (or some other infamous U.S. jail), or the lock is stamped "Hopps" (I'm assuming they were trying for "Hobbs"?). Despite being prominently stamped "8 levers / quality guaranteed", the padlock I have has only has 5 levers.

[ARF-GEF]

I probably told you when you posted you whole collection but I got to sa it now too. Great collection and I love the neat organisation MAcGyver!