Is it possible to modify a Master padlock to accept 2 keys?

[torchlight]

Hi Everyone-

I don't know much about locks and keys, but I do have a question and thought I might find some knowledge here.

I need some padlocks that can be opened with two different keys. One of the keys is already determined - it is a Master brand key for a 4-pin cylinder and I have the key number for the key. It starts with the letter 'A.' I also have physical copies of that key.

I am hoping there is a way that the padlock can be modified to accept a second key as well. The second key number has not been pre-determined and could be anything, really. As long as the lock works with both keys.

The padlocks need to be Master brand, obviously. Laminated brass. And I am thinking they'd have to be a rekeyable style lock?

Just wondering if something like this can be done.

I had looked into a "master keyed" type of system, but I am told that the key number I already have is just a normal key, and could not be used as a master-type key (from the factory anyway).

Any feedback would be very helpful and greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[torchlight]

Oh, I should also mention that I also would need the second key to be a standard key number as well, so more could easily be ordered. As opposed to some type of special custom made deal.

[fgarci03]

Hello,

I'm no pro at masker-keying, so maybe someone who is can give you a more accurate reply.

But yes, it is possible. If you are handy, you can do it yoursef, although it's a bit difficult, and you need some material. But any local locksmith can do that I think.

In a short version: I believe you understand how a key opens a lock by aligning the pins to the sheer line. And I assume you know what the key numbers are. The dephts of the cuts. The higher the number, the deeper the cut.

So imagine these two keys: one is 25642 and another is 25632. On those two keys only one depht is different. The lock needs to have a master key pin. It's like a second driver pin, so on that stack it would have 3 pins, in which one key would unlock leaving just one pin above the sheer line. The other key would also unlock but leaving both driver pins above the sheer line. If you look youtube for master key animation, it's explained in detail.

Basically it's just a matter of changing pins on the lock, that's why I believe any locksmith can do that. And you just need to know the number of the key needed so you can order some.

The only concern you need to have is that the "master key" should be the one with the highest number cuts. That way it would be impossible for someone to fabricate a master key from a "slave key".

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why you couldn't use your key to a master keyed lock.
Wait for someone more experienced in this matter to correct me if I'm wrong...

Good luck!

[LockDocWa]

The Master padlocks you buy from Lowes or Home Depot
are already keyed to a key and are not meant to be re-keyed.

You need to purchase a padlock which is made to be re-keyed.
The 21W1KZ is a Master padlock which uses a removable, re-key-able and master key-able cylinder.
Expect to pay around $20.00 from a locksmith keyed the way you want it.

[cledry]

The master 24 is a rekeyable laminated brass padlock. However your code series is on the M1 blank which is not what the 24 uses. I am not sure if the shorter 4 pin cylinder could be used with an adapter. As for getting a key that is part of the regular code series... there is really no need to do this. You simply record the cuts to the key and you can order more keys or you could simply duplicate them.

[YouLuckyFox]

I am not sure if I am properly addressing the question, but at http://www.buildyourlock.com/ you can pick the Master Locks you want and select to have them master keyed. Since it's factory, they don't even charge for the master keying! You can even have them match an original key/lock number (so that you can order more locks with the same master keying, etc).

[Evan]

@cledry:

There is a re-keyable Master padlock that uses 4 pin cylinders...

@YouLuckyFox:

The factory will not master key padlocks to different stock issued bitting numbers, each master key job is using specially created bittings...

@torchlight:

The only way to do what you want done is to purchase the re-keyable master padlocks and have a locksmith master key them to your chosen codes/bittings in the field...

~~ Evan

[Dogrocket]

The only concern you need to have is that the "master key" should be the one with the highest number cuts. That way it would be impossible for someone to fabricate a master key from a "slave key".

Is this standard practice with master keying? Is this assuming controlled or limited access to blanks for impressioning?

I would have thought that having a "master key must be a highest number cut" rule would limit the problem space of identifying what the depth of the master key pin(s) were set to?

[Evan]

The only concern you need to have is that the "master key" should be the one with the highest number cuts. That way it would be impossible for someone to fabricate a master key from a "slave key".

Is this standard practice with master keying? Is this assuming controlled or limited access to blanks for impressioning?

I would have thought that having a "master key must be a highest number cut" rule would limit the problem space of identifying what the depth of the master key pin(s) were set to?

No, it is not standard practice of master keying...

You need to create a master key system by properly selecting a bitting for your TMK and then systematically progress change key bittings compatible with your TMK by using one of the methods for creating a master key system...

You would not want a master key to have all shallow or all deep bittings -- this just demonstrates a lack of proper understanding of the subject matter...

Search this site, there are several good threads here about the subject of both how to choose a master key bitting as well as how to create the keying system once you do...

~~ Evan

[fgarci03]

You would not want a master key to have all shallow or all deep bittings -- this just demonstrates a lack of proper understanding of the subject matter...

That's why I said I'm no pro at the subject

Anyway, I was refering to the OP's problem of having some padlocks that needed to be opened with 2 keys only. I don't think that would have to follow all those strick rules of masterkeying (although I can be wrong) to make a master key system.
You would just need to add a master pin to the mix and you're all set. No?

On a big system like a full building or campus it would be a completely different scenario.

My point is that if your masterkey has shallower cuts than the user key (not necessarily all of them, but at least one), it would be impossible to impression a master key from a user key, because the metal has already been chopped off from the key, and you'd need a higher cut to make the master key for it.

Is this wrong? (Again, assuming this specific scenario, not a full master-keyed system)