Residential,commercial,padlock,and camlock key blank ideas

[lokpikr999]

Hey Guys,I am trying to put together a small assortment of blanks that would cover the most common residential,commercial,padlock,and camlocks in use today.After much consideration,I've come to the conclusion that this assortment of key blanks would ideal.Give me your feedback

AR1,AR4,CG1,C089,DE6,KW1,KW10,M1, SC1,SC4,WR5,Y1,Y11,Y12,Y13

Alex

[Altashot]

I don't know what you come across but I would include: "Master" 1092-6000 and 6000B, "American" 1145, "Residential/commercial" Sargent, Dexter, Amerock, "cam locks/file cab and stuff" CG16, The 100AM series, Chicago 1041T and TR, 1043J, 1098M and X, Riopel, 1066-10 and 13, N54G, 1054UN, the 1069 series...

Ilco numbers off the top of my head...
There are a lot more.

M.

[cledry]

The most common ones I use aside from those you mention. Sargent LA, Yale GA, Yale GB, Ruswin D1, Russwin L4, Best A, Schlage E, National NA12, Corbin CO106, National 1069N, XL mailbox.

If you are trying to stock the minimum I would only buy 6 pin as you can always shorten them. So stock the SC4 and you can make the SC1, although your initial cost will be higher. You could also use the Kwikset or Dexter to work for Weiser, the Dexter and Kwikset can usually substitute for each other and can be used to duplicate the Arrow keys you mentioned..

[Sinifar]

Save time, money and worry.

BUY an Ilco basic key assortment from any number of suppliers. This will give you most of the normal keys covered, about 10 of each, and then you can spend more cash on those which you cut most.

2 - IF you are thinking of cutting BEST / Arrow IC - and you do not have a punch of some sort, DON'T. This lock has very tight tolerances which is why no duplicates are ever cut by the trade, only originals off key punches. You would need either the Blue Punch, an A-1 for IC, with A2 - A-3 - A4 set up, or one of the Best Factory types. Worse there are more IC sectionals than most know about. There is the Best "A" thru "Q" with a few restricted tossed in that bunch, then I have Arrow 52 thru 56 Flex, which you will never see, Arrow 2A, 2B and 3C which is really factory restricted. ON Best, there are the WA thru WZ types along with TA thru TE. Best B1 - B2 which is their Peaks blanks and is not available to the outside.

3- Automotive. Unless you have one of the transponder units which you can get into the computer of the car, and have taken a "Pure Auto" class, there isn't much going on with the old non transponder auto work anymore. In fact most of the cars from that era have been cut for scrap ages ago. MAYBE just maybe you might see an old GM "A" thru "K" yet, but I highly doubt it judging from what I see on the street. Cars have become a specialty and most shops have dropped them due to the low rate of return on the investment.

How much?

A TKO Ilco transponder will run you in the neighborhood of $8000. I am not kidding you. Then you need the sidewinder key cutter, and a way of originating the keys. Then you need a supply of transponder keys. Each can run from $2.00 for the basic unit to over $125.00 for a complete unit. ALL total my estimate would be about $25,000 for the set up. Don't go there unless you are made of money -- there is not the demand for this anymore.

A survey of what is being sold around you would be in order if you do not want to go the assortment route. Mostly, KW-1 and SC-1, with some M-1's tossed in. Know that many padlocks today are made in China and have their own different keyways, and until you know the trade, don't go there either.

Most commercial work is done in either Schlage, SC-4, and more today Everest C123. But there is also Everest C125, C135, and C145. We use all of them. Arrow is done in K6, - L6A blanks.

As far as files and small locks for desks there are a good 25 of those on my board and more it seems with every release from Ilco. Again get the assortment and go from there. The Chicago 101AM thru 104AM come to mind, along with 1003 for Hudson. Hudson has tons of different numbers but if you learn the trade you can cross them back to Ilco numbers. ie .. L1054B / IN-8 is a good cross for many small locks. The reverse is Y-13. Between these two you should have a good number of them covered. There are more, but not now, I am trying to make this short.

Unless you have one of the code programs originating small keys for file cabinets and other locks will be chore. Genericode / HPC Code soft for the computer, or the really old books, like we have around here, or the third way would be Fiche. Then you would need a way to generate the key - either with depth keys, or one of the machines like a HPC 1200 / Framon FRA 2 / or even a Foley 200 would work.

This industry to evolving, and with the changes most of the older stuff is going away FAST. Don't invest in the past. Study up on what is trending today and invest in that direction.

Sinifar

[cledry]

I never have trouble cutting Best keys and I don't use a punch. We keep one machine dedicated for Best and it does a fine job. So I wouldn't say never use anything other than a punch, however generating keys rather than duplicating is a wise choice whether you use a punch or a code machine. The machine we use actually is a hybrid. We can put a cut key in and it will duplicate to factory depth and spacing, or we can use it to originate a key.

[bobhdus]

I never have trouble cutting Best keys and I don't use a punch. We keep one machine dedicated for Best and it does a fine job. So I wouldn't say never use anything other than a punch, however generating keys rather than duplicating is a wise choice whether you use a punch or a code machine. The machine we use actually is a hybrid. We can put a cut key in and it will duplicate to factory depth and spacing, or we can use it to originate a key.

I agree with you... I have the old MKII Exacta Punch and the A1 Pak Punch with the BEST A2 package and I still have better luck duplicating BEST keys on my cheapie Foley-Belsaw machine. Before I cut one on it, I will put two equal sized brass parallels on there and color the edge of the parallel on the Cutter vise with dykem (or sharpie). I adjust it until it just starts to remove the coloring then I am set. Better to remove less than more. You can always take more off if you need to.

Btw, if anyone is looking for depth/ space keys, I noticed Mike Gibson with locksmithvideoschool.com is selling a whole bunch of different D/S keys. Most of them are not found on other sites. They are pricey, but without a decent code machine most small shops should consider them.

[Capt_Tom]

BO-1, SC-20, KW-10, A1011-L4, A1012-H2, A1012, A1145L, A1011-L4, FA3, I am near dozens of RV parks, So I also carry a complete line of Tri-Mark and Fastec keys (as well as a complete pre-cut set of same).

I am also a pack rat (yes, I admitted it) I have dozens of rings of old factory cut keys. If I have trouble identifying a lock or key way, I can try keys until I have the number of the correct blank. Only once was I unable to match one. I felt that it was just a restricted key way.... and turned out to be right.

Good luck

Tom

[Capt_Tom]

Also... Go to your local supplier and get the Ilco key directory. Most will charge you $10 for it. You can tab the important pages for keys that you need to keep in stock, and look at the "family trees" . That being the base key, the longer version, the master of the family, the reverse, etc. It also has a cross reference. As far as the ilco auto reference, you can usually get that one free.

Tom

[2octops]

Every region is different when it comes to what key blanks a particular person needs to stock. Even in a particular region, different locksmiths need to stock different blanks because of the scope of work that they perform.

Look around and pay very close attention to what kinds of locks are on every building and home that you see. Also pay close attention to what kind of vehicles are on the road in your area as you drive around.

In my area, I see a lot of Best, Corbin Russwin, Sargent and Schlage on commercial buildings. Old buildings in this area use a lot of Yale. Residential here is typically Kwikset, Schlage or Weiser. That means that there is no reason for me to even stock any Lockwood blanks or Arrow. Same goes for vehicles. We have Chrysler, Nissan, Ford, Honda and GM dealerships. The closest Mazda dealer is 70 miles away so it's very rare that I ever see a Mazda.

Lockcodes.com is one of the best resources for codes on the market today. It can be accesses from any computer with internet connection or smart phone. The codes are updates constantly so you don't have to wait a year for updates. Codesource, Genericode, Instacode, code books, fische, etc is outdated when it comes out.

You can go to kaba-ilco.com and download all of the reference manuals for free. No reason to pay $10 for one at a distributor.

[mastersmith]

2octops has this one nailed. If you are going to be in this business, you have to be aware of your surroundings. Each region is different, each environment within is different. And all of that is constantly evolving. What I use today is NOT what I used 20 years ago. The changes happen subtly, that is some of the reason you see "new old stock" advertised for sale, it is no longer viable. But it is probably useful elsewhere. I have replacement stock that obviously was good at some point (hence "replacement stock" ) that then didn't sell. Just like that- dead stock. Especially true with automotive, anymore those parts are useless very quickly. By the way, does anyone need any GM key blanks from the 70's?