Tool recommendations, information on your favorite automatic and/or mechanical lockpicking devices for those with less skills, or looking to make their own.
by aczera » 20 Mar 2013 19:53
Scenarion description: I'm putting together a kit to quickly open tumbler, wafer and tubular locks. I work on merchant vessels as a navigation / safety officer, and we have the following lock types: Tumbler (pin) locks for doors, padlocks and restricted areas e.g. bow thruster room. Wafer locks for moderately sensitive equipment, e.g. alarms, cabinets and fire hose hydrant boxes Tubular locks for highly sensitive equipment, e.g. navigation computers, Gyro boxes. Personally i am located in Ireland, so USA websites are out of the question for high shipping charges, amazon, ebay and dhgate.com are the options for supply. Problem: Due to owner change / carelessness keys are lost, misplaced or broken into the lock, consequently whoever needs access to the cabinet/area will not be able to open it. Scenario two, you have a padlock securing an area at the bowels of the ship, so if you do not have the necessary key you have to climb up multiple ladders, locate the key holder and waste half an hour locating the key, which might not be the one so back to square number one. Scenario three, the padlock is rusted, without a key or simply old. This requires electrical cables, a flex and a lot of hassle to cut it off. New lock requisition form, needless bitchin'. Scenario four, immediate access is required for a navigation equipment without destroying the panel, and if the key is lost the only solution is getting a pry bar and force it open. This renders the panel useless, so we need to order a new one, a flat metal piece manufactured by a radar manufacturer costs hundreds of euros/dollars. Solution seeking so far: I've read through this website, spent a lot on books from amazon, practiced with some tools left over (I have a tensioning tool, diamond and half hooks). I bought the cheapest locks available in B&Q for practice, and unable to open any one of them. I am a complete beginner, do jigsaws for fun, and it personally bothers me. I ordered a southord set, the same as in the 5-piece, only one-by-one, cause it is cheaper. Still have not arrived, postal services are a piece of crap in Ireland. My plan: 1. Get a lock picking set, I enjoy opening locks, so looking for a cheap set. I've been looking at the KLOM 32-piece set. Southord 14 piece, HPC maybe. 2. Wafer jiggler keys, a 3-set is available on amazon. See here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lock-Jiggler-ke ... 369&sr=8-13. 7- and 8 pin lock picking set. Your input needed: 1. On the Klom 32-piece set, or any set suitable for a beginner. 2. Mini, medium and auto jiggler set available on amazon. 3. The most common size for tubular pin locks. 4. Advice on the best lock picking gun at they are good for quick opening. Restrictions for the kit: 1. Size / weight. Due to airline restrictions can not carry a toolbox, an electric lock gun set with accessories, solutions for exotic locks (too expensive to buy by the company hence will not be encountered, if so, it will be cut off anyway). 2. Price. Will not spend hundreds on euros for a beginner set, and anyway it might be confiscated by customs from checked-in baggage. 3. Portability. A wallet set and lock picking gun would solve most issue, tubular lock picks are kept in the cabin anyway. Disclaimer for moderators: Should you wish to move this thread to the restricted section, or contact me please feel free at the supplied email address, on request I can send certificates and what you need. I am not interested in high security locks, automotive opening, safes, bumping - I simply would like to open locks during my work as it saves me time and hassle. Many thanks in advance for your input.
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aczera
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by fgarci03 » 20 Mar 2013 20:34
I think you are in the rght track. Jiggler keys can open cheap wafers in less than 1sec sometimes. Usually don't take more than 5secs if you do it right.
As for tubular, you need to know which tubulars, how many pins etc. Southord has great picks for those, but are a bit expensive. Try universalbumpkeys.com berhaps...
For lockpicking kits. I'm suspicious to say, but I like southord. Started with a 5 piece set and been improving it since then. But a 14 piece is likely to have all you need.
I advice you to get locks to practice on similar to the ones you will have to pick. Sometimes I find even cheap locks a bit nasty at the begining just because I've never picked them. After first or second openings. They just become cake. Even diferent locks, same brand. I guess you just get used to the tolerances of them, so picking a new lock, but branded the same you picked before gets significantly easier...
Keep us posted on your findings and purchases, as well your experiences with them!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
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fgarci03
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by Raymond » 20 Mar 2013 21:15
Welcome to the fun world of lock picking.
However, I think most of your rationaliizations for picking fall flat. If the persons in charge of such a complicated vehicle cannot see the way clear to providing available duplicate keys where they can be reached within a reasonable time, then it is their responsibility to choose to send a runner to retrieve the key from anywhere. That supervisor will suffer the consequences of the delay or replacement cost. Once you begin picking like you exampled, you will be presumed responsible for everything lost, stolen, or misplaced. You will become the most available target for anyone with a nefarious agenda or a grudge. You may enjoy the thrill and respect of being able to open a lock but keep it out of the public knowledge.
I have also questioned the wisdom of trusting such expensive equipment to dingbats who cannot be trusted to not lose their assigned keys. That is a serious breach of responsibility.
Bolt cutters, cordless drills and pry bars are effective and acceptable during small emergencies.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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by aczera » 20 Mar 2013 21:31
Thanks for the two replies so far!
universalbumpkeys.com GOSO 3 Piece 7 Pin Tubular Lock Pick Set for 54 pounds, I can get the same set for the same in euros from dhgate.com with free shipping. And I do not know whether I need all three sizes.
"If the persons in charge of such a complicated vehicle cannot see the way clear to providing available duplicate keys where they can be reached within a reasonable time, then it is their responsibility to choose to send a runner to retrieve the key from anywhere."
Ships are not complicated, and to send a runner is not an option if you have to send a person not able to grasp the problem to a person unable to grasp the problem, who might not have the key after all. Delegating responsibility at sea will not work, as you are the men on the job and it is your best interest to solve the issue at hand with the tools at hand. I need to get the job done after all, whether it is opening a cabinet to fix nav equipment or to provide access to engineers - the reason I wrote this post is looking for ANSWERS to the issue of opening pin, wafer and tubular locks. I appreciate the time it took you to write the post, please advise on a SOLUTION for the issues detailed above. Imagine this: YOU have to open a lock in the shortest time available, with the minimum damage possible, with tools fitting into your boiler suit.
Thanks for your replies so far!
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aczera
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by aczera » 20 Mar 2013 21:40
As for lock picking gun:
Having a tool which can open any tumbler locks with minimal (2-5 hours) training could be trusted only to officers, as cabin doors are invariably the same type. As officers, we have the master key to all cabins, needless to say we only enter cabins with two officers present for cabin inspections / customs searches. Your advice is sought on the best lock picking gun, primarily to open padlocks in hard to access areas and pin tumbler cabinet locks. Again, I'd rather spend double the money on something that works all the time, every time than a cheap s**t. Please if you read this and have a constructive idea do not hesitate to share!!
Thanks!
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aczera
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by fgarci03 » 20 Mar 2013 21:44
I can't really help you with pick guns. I've seen great and NASTY reviews about the DealExtreme though. Heard the Southord was pretty good. Expensive too.
The tubular picks. First you need to know which locks you will work on. Are they all the same? If so, you only need one pick. If not, you'll need more. Take a picture of them, or at least count how many pins they have...
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
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fgarci03
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by aczera » 20 Mar 2013 22:40
I've been talking about china wholesale, www.dhgate.com. It is a direct website for chinese factories. I've ordered stuff from them, arrived without a hitch, usually 5-10 days. Can only recommend. Tubular locks are invariably securing sensitive equipment, e.g. navigation motherboards, alarm systems, coke machines, pinball machines etc. Before I get flamed, crucified and banned, drunken passengers using the play room will seize any opportunity to hawk on a white-shirted person to complain. Read: you walking around happily checking on passengers, then you have an issue out of the blue. I'd rather carry a tubular lock pick (yes, seen the videos, read the books etc so I have the theoretical knowledge) for all those as it is easier and more conductive for passenger happiness to give them a free game.It is also easier on the electricians on board as they have a zillion jobs to do, if I open a game machine I do them a favour. We have mostly game stations in the entertainment area, I will not touch / interested in slot machines, drinks, god forbid atm machines as they are managed by an external company. I would like to get the most common size tubular lock pick for 7 and 8 pin tubular locks, I have no issue calling for dedicated personnel, but I would like to save the waiting as it cuts into my sleeping time.
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aczera
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by aczera » 20 Mar 2013 22:44
If the above post was too long, here we go:
I've seen tubular lock picks for 7 and 8 pin applications, in 7, 7.5 and 7.8 mm sizes. I wish to carry only the most common two sizes, read one 7 pin and one 8 pin.
I do not care if I can not open the lock with them, I have help available, just the two most common sizes carried will save me a lot of time.
Thanks!
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aczera
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by Squelchtone » 21 Mar 2013 8:03
aczera wrote:Before I get flamed, crucified and banned, drunken passengers using the play room will seize any opportunity to hawk on a white-shirted person to complain. Read: you walking around happily checking on passengers, then you have an issue out of the blue. I'd rather carry a tubular lock pick (yes, seen the videos, read the books etc so I have the theoretical knowledge) for all those as it is easier and more conductive for passenger happiness to give them a free game.It is also easier on the electricians on board as they have a zillion jobs to do, if I open a game machine I do them a favour. ... I would like to get the most common size tubular lock pick for 7 and 8 pin tubular locks, I have no issue calling for dedicated personnel, but I would like to save the waiting as it cuts into my sleeping time.
I like your matter of fact writing style, reminds me of myself when I first started in picking, but I have to say that your ship sounds poorly run with everyone but the responsible person performing a particular task. There should be an employee in that room (not you) with the game playing passengers who sees to their drinks being full and electronic games working properly, it's noble for you to want to fix everything for everyone by using picks as the instrument of being the helpful and handy guy on the ship, but it's not your job. Picking a machine in front of a customer in order to give them a free game or something is a very unprofessional way of doing it. You should have a reset key or the actual key or a code to get the machine into a menu to allow for a free game or credits. I don't know how low or hi tech of a gaming machine you have, but picking into it every time is a silly thing to be doing. I'm certainly not here to flame you or burst your bubble, as I've never been one of those people at work who tells a customer "it's not my job" and walk away, but there's gotta be a certain line of reasonable expectation on the part of guests and your employer that you are not the ships captain and can't solve every problem with a tool belt full of various devices. If however, you're the maintenance guy, the having a pick set shipboard makes sense, as does a key cabinet in your office/cabin with spare keys. I realize some of these ships are as big as a city, and walking 45 minutes to get a key is a pain in the butt, so perhaps carrying the most common of keys would help, if of course you have access to duplicate keys. Don't get the Klom set if you're looking for something small for your pocket or tool bag, the handles are huge. Get the HPC or Southord, trust me, I have all three and the Klom handles (although very comfortable with their soft green silicone) are very big and strangely shaped. I know you're only seeking the exact answer you'd like to hear and nothing else, but it's just not that simple. Our members here have an amazing amount of collective knowledge and are going to give you advice you may not want to hear because we're trying to steer people straight when they get tunnel vision on a particular solution and they don't seem to think there's anything else available to solve their perceived problem. Lastly, a pick gun is not the answer, it's loud, it's not accurate, doesn't always work, and takes much practice. You'd do better with an L rake pick and a tension wrench with most locks, be it pin tumbler or wafer. I'll be in the Captain's mess if anyone needs me. Squelchtone

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Squelchtone
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by aczera » 21 Mar 2013 20:22
Squelchtone thanks for your reply, please let me explain the scenarios I do or might encounter:
Baseline: most commercial vessels are run without regard to working conditions, equipment or personnel happiness e.g. you solve the issue at hand. Cost-cutting measures mean diminished customer service, if it is a cargo vessel you will have to solve the issue at hand. The notion of "not my job", "get someone to do it" or "will have the technicians deal with it" does not apply, you are the person there and then, and it is up to you to to find a solution. I could, but will not pull rank on someone when with a little training (have to admit enjoyable training as I take pleasure opening locks) I can open the particular piece and get the job done. Ships are poorly run, undermanned and people doing the job e.g. the deck crew are busy, as an officer I have to make my men's life easier, so if I can carry a few tools which results that they will not have to make an unnecessary, often futile trip I am happy.
1. Padlock secures a restricted area, without a key available. Pondering on the reasons are not productive, we need to get access to that area without a half-hour delay of getting electrical power cables and cutting equipment. Hence I was looking at manual lock pick guns as they are known for quick results. SOLUTION PLEASE: WHICH LOCK PICK GUN TO GET??? DEPENDABLE AND BUILT TO LAST! 2. Wafer lock limits access to panels, most often alarm panels. The key is a good bit away, I think jiggler keys are the solution, hence I ordered a 3-piece set from amazon. Reason: after a 16-hour day I have a set of keys, saves me trekking to an office. 3. Tubular locks secure very sensitive equipment. Usually it is on the bridge. Your post detailed (rightfully) the reasons why I should not gain access, it had been only an example. Entertainment areas are only common on ferries and cruise ships, technicians are available for that. The issue is panels for nav equipment, as tubular keys are small they get lost, hence ou are forced to pry the panel open, then secure it with silver tape. RECOMMENDATIONS NEEDED: MOST COMMON 7- AND 8 PIN TUBULAR LOCK SIZES.
I have ordered a KLOM 32-piece set and joggler keys, they should solve most issues and enable me to practice.
Your input is, as always, are highly appreciated.
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aczera
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by Buggs41 » 22 Mar 2013 8:30
I know exactly what Aczera is talking about. I was on the USS Midway as aircrew for two years. In Naval operations, the best crew man is the one that can wear many hat's. There is a need for each member to understand what the other trades do while underway. If you don't have the skils to perform a certain task, you at least understand what needs to happen next, and get the ball rolling.
I can't give any more input on tools, other than what has been posted already.
My fleet of NR2003 online race cars.
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by Capt_Tom » 22 Mar 2013 20:51
If I had those problems.....I would pack a pick gun, set of decent picks, a tubular pick AND A nice battery operated rotary pick (DeWalt), with tubular bits (large and small), some nice cobalt bits, a few mister twisters, a couple of diamond core bits, some big ass bolt cutters... and if necessary, an acetylene torch... I forgot the duct tape
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by Capt_Tom » 22 Mar 2013 20:53
Thought I'd break the stress a little.................Good luck!
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by aczera » 23 Mar 2013 9:07
Yeah, the final kit looks like will be - set of picks in cabin - mini, medium and large jiggler keys, - set of bogota entry set (3 humps and half diamond) on me.
Will see how this kit lives up to expectations, I read good things about the bogotas.
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aczera
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by zeepia » 23 Mar 2013 10:35
aczera wrote:mini, medium and large jiggler keys
I think those large jigglers (=auto jigglers?) are so large that you can´t use them succesfully in any other locks than autos. And if you are going to open that car which is blocking the way and the driver is missing when you arrive at the pier, then you are in trouble. Or you have a very odd work contract Normal locks should be opened easier with smaller tools, like bogotas. Those I can recommend. Still require a lot of practise to master. Good luck!
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