MUL-T-LOCK Classic = good deadbolt?

[outshine]

Hey guys. I'm buying some new deadbolts for the front and back door of my house to replace the cheap Kwikset deadbolts I bought in Home Depot years ago and have now come to understand are basically crap. I want to replace them with something way less crappy.

So I did some research and talked to my local locksmith. He recommended MUL-T-LOCK, and from everything I've read this seems to be a very good choice.

The thing is, while I've found the MUL-T-LOCK brand to be regarded as high quality, I can't find much about the specific model my locksmith has recommended. I'm talking about the MUL-T-LOCK Classic.

I guess I'm just wondering if this is... you know... a good lock? I assume it's a lot better than the Kwikset it's replacing, but how does it stack up against other MUL-T-LOCK models and other similar high security locks from other companies (like Medeco, for example)?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[fgarci03]

Hi,
I'm no expert at any of those locks, but I'll try to help you at least untill someone more experienced can be a better help.

For starters, I don't consider any of those locks to be high security. BUT... They are very good. MTL Classic features a Pin-In-Pin system, wich cannot be discussed on the open forums, but it's a pain in the butt to pick. Medeco (the Biaxial model) features a rotational pin system where pins need to be also rotated in addition to lifted to open the lock. And it's as far as I can go about picking them in here.

The MTL Classic, at least the more recent models (I believe that's your case) also has serrated pins which are evil. That in adition to other security layers makes it a tough beast. The Medeco I think there are several models (m3, etc) which I know nothing about.


If your budget is unlimited (meh!) I would suggest something like the EVVA MCS, or maybe MTL MT5+ (the + is important), or maybe even EVVA 3KS+. They are also very good locks. But to answer your question: Yes, with any of the locks you pointed, you'll be well served.


I wouldn't mind much with someone picking them though. Bypassing or destructive entry is much more likely to happen. Can't go into those also. But I advice you to install something that's called a "Security Fitting" for your door. It's kind of a shield for the lock.
And get a good one. It does make a difference!

Now I'll let the pro's correct me or add something to it!
Hope you'll figure out what you need!


P.S. - A different model in each door is also a good option.

[Squelchtone]

I'm surprised the locksmith isn't recommending at least the newer Mul-t-lock Interactive, heck that one is at least 15 years old, the classic at least 25.

Our friend datagram wrote a wonderful research paper on Mul-T-Lock locks, please read it here for everything you ever wanted to know about Mul-t-Lock:

http://www.lockpickingforensics.com/art ... t_lock.pdf

I personally wouldn't go with Classic, too easy to pick (for experienced picker with proper tools), and if you buy old stock locks, they may be vulnerable to the comb pick attack as demonstrated by Eric Michaud. As to compare them to other similar price point locks, that's going to be a matter of opinion. I like Medeco compared to Mul-t-Lock, but there are also other choices out there such as Abloy, BiLock, EVVA 3KS, Schlage Primus, etc, etc. The brands available will generally change based on your geographical location.

Another forum member, jkthecjer, had this to say about Mul-t-Lock: http://www.theamazingking.com/mtl.php

Good luck with your home security!
Squelchtone

[lockr]

Well i'm not a pro, but I would like to bring up a point because this topic seems to come up from time to time. I know you specficially said you were looking for a "less crappy" lock which is certainly admirable; I too hope one day to summon up the effort to retrofit these Schalge B660's I have sitting on my shelf with Protec or Bilock and install them in place of the junk I have on my door =)

The one thing I should point out that (perhaps not in your case, but) usually the reasons for installing a better lock seem to somehow equate with increased security. And while it's totally cool to install an interesting, unique and/or expensive lock on your door, security goes beyond how pick-resistant a lock is. Other aspects of security need to be considered; realistically a burglar is more often than not going to take the quickest and easiest path of entry into a home. They're not going to stand there and pick your lock - sure maybe they'd try bumping it, but that's probably even too sophisticated for most burglars. Typically they'll just kick the door down or go in through a window.

Anyway just my 2c. Heck, I have a piece of crap knock-off Kwikset on my front door. And I sleep just fine at night (although of course i'd sleep a lot better if I went the route you're suggesting)

[Sinifar]

When you are talking about a "better" lock - what exactly do you mean? Most locks today are pretty much the same thing, internally.

Kwikset has a crummy tail piece and a bad retainer (snap ring) - Schlage isn't too bad, don't buy a B300 series however - that had bolt problems from day 1. Most imports are pretty good. The fancy high security locks are okay, if you want to spend that much for them, but a good Schlage B600 series with the same high security cylinder in it will do the same thing. LSDA 220, the "body" bolts to the door with 1/4 inch screws. ANY cylinder (C500 type) will fit in those.

High security cylinders are more about key control than anything else. ANY cylinder can be drilled out with a "Cylinder Eater" - most HS locks today CAN BE PICKED with the right equipment and TIME. Unless you need the features for UL 437, I would not go there. If you just want key control there are lots of "locksmith" keyways out there like LSA, MX, and KMT.

Residential electronics are junk. Period. They look "modern" - "computer" - "digital" but they won't last long outside in heavy weather. Inside those locks they are all pretty much all plastic of some sort. Take one apart some time, but be careful you don't loose the springs which pop out at you. There is no indicator where those go, and if you are not familiar with them, you just trashed your $100 lock. The only ones which do work and will last are locks like Kaba E-Plex, or Alarm Lock 2800 series. Plan on spending upwards of close to $800 (US) for them.

A solid core door will work wonders over the usual residential junk, hollow core doors - especially metal clad doors with Styrofoam filler.

What you really need is a Don-Jo "wrap around" door re-enforcer. This will strengthen any door against kick ins. Next get a good strike, one which is larger than the factory original. Here again, Don-Jo has several. What you want is something which spreads out the area which is anchored to the wall, and use at least three inch screws which go into the 2 x 4 behind it. Drive those with the battery powered drill, or corded unit. Use a # 3 Phillips bit to do so. NOW you have a REALLY BETTER deadbolt installation. Kick proof, force proof. This is what you really want.

Don't go over board and use "siege bars" - which have two anchors in the wall and a pipe or 2 x 4 between them to hold the door shut. YES I have seen that in the "war zone" -- ALSO - window bars especially in basement casement windows.

What will really make your place secure is a local alarm. Just something to make noise if the door is forced, and you can "pyramid" up and add motion detectors like Passive Infrared Detectors (PIRS) -- Make your main entry the timed entry / exit, and the rest instant.

Since we are going all out, replace your first floor window glass with Lexan. 1/4 inch is practically bomb proof. Add fiberglass / re-enforced "BR" - bullet resistant boards to the inside of the first floor walls.

How far do you want to go with this?

I could go on for quite a few more - but then how much of a "war zone" do you live in?

Sinifar

[ARF-GEF]

It all depends on your goal. For their price Multilocks are decent locks. Not excellent, but acceptable.
You have to be aware there is a special tool for opening them, but it's not widely available but it is out there.
If multilock then MT5+ or MT5 is also better than interactive.
Interactives can get stuck when dirt gets into them, that's their weakness, but Squelchtone is absolutely right, those are probably better than classics.

If you are looking for truly high security I'd recommend upper end EVVA (3ks+ e.g.) or DOM (saturn or diamant=diamond) or KESO (4000S with steel house) or Abloy Protec2 (hardened) or Bilock or the Medecos are quite nice too!

Other aspects of security need to be considered;

very wise words, most of us (lock fanatics) tend to overlook this angle.

Tell us what your final decision is, it would be interesting to hear:)

[outshine]

Thanks guys... tons of helpful stuff here!

I'm going to ask my locksmith about locks again, and probably go to another locksmith for a second opinion.

I do however have a couple of questions about the other non-lock stuff, like strike plates.

Am I looking for something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Security-Strike-B ... 000UVR4BC/

Or something more like this: http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Homes-Intern ... 003P5KJJO/

Or something else altogether?

And is this all stuff anyone with a drill can install, or is a locksmith needed/preferred?

Oh, and for those who asked, I live in an area that was hit pretty hard by a hurricane last year and there were issues with looting in the neighborhood during that time. So, it's far from a "war zone" 99.9% of the time. But that 0.1%... it was pretty close.

[ARF-GEF]

I think against looting the best defence is a shotgun....
But seriously the lock is not the most important thing. As lockr thoughtfully pointed out a strong door is more important against brute force attacks (like I imagine looting to be).
You should also consider other weak points like back doors and easily accessible windows. A protecting film isn't expensive but can help you out on the window front.
If you feel that you are in any way more threatened than any ordinary household you should probably opt for investing a bit more in a lock and getting a high security one. (see the ones I have listed before) EVVA DOM and Abloy locks have a modular build feature which means you can make the lock shorter or longer if you move and need a different length, so they are a truly lasting investment.
I personally would recommend either EVVA 3ks+ or even better the DOM diamant but that's a matter of taste (and of course money).

As for the products you've linked to I think a normal person can install them, but the are pointless with a very weak door.
We should wait for more experienced locksmiths, I've never installed something like that before.

[lockr]

I think Sinifar was referring to something like one of these: http://www.mrlock.com/35585.html. They are available in a wide variety of styles. Don-Jo makes a lot of stuff, you can browse their catalog on their website (http://www.don-jo.com/).

Also consider using good quality hinges, such as the Abloy ones with the built-in anti-pry pins, and a deadbolt with an expanding bolt, like this one: (http://www.bayarealocks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=160)

But the best thing to do is to talk to a few locksmiths and find one you like. If you find someone good and they should be able to guide you in the most cost effective means of adequately securing your home without going overboard. Sinifar also mentioned an alarm, which is solid advice. I'd also add that motion-activated lights are a really cheap and effective deterrant.

Security is best implemented in layers, but there is a point of diminishing returns. You just need to implement enough to protect your home, family and posessions against the most common forms of break-ins. Beyond that you'll just be throwing money away.

[ARF-GEF]

talk to a few locksmiths and find one you like.

Best advice. You should go out and do just that

But think about how much you are willing to spend and what are your goals exactly before you go.

[outshine]

Good advice once again.

Would a typical locksmith also sell these other items? Like the door re-inforcer, strike plate and better quality hinges?

[outshine]

Oh, one other thing I forgot to ask. The locksmith I talked to mentioned that the lock I get for the knob doesn't matter because they are all mostly junk. I realize the deadbolt is the primary lock here, but is the knob lock really that unimportant?

[outshine]

Sorry, one more question just came to mind. I have what I believe are called steel doors... they are basically wood doors surrounded with a layer of steel. With doors like this, is the wraparound re-enforcer still important, or does the fact that it's a steel door lessen the need?

[daniel22747]

I realize the deadbolt is the primary lock here, but is the knob lock really that unimportant?

Well, in my opinion, kinda yeah....

The dead bolt is the thing that really matters. Particularly combined with a strong door. As others have said most real world buglars are not lock pickers. If they are going to try to get in via the door it will be by attempting to kick it in.

A well made door can usually still be kicked in but it will take more blows and harder blows that make more noise. This increases theodd that a neighbor will hear what is going on and call the cops.

In apartment buildings often the knob does not lock at all. The dead bolt is the only lock on the door.

[Sinifar]

Let's face it, A LOCK is nothing more than something you use to keep other people out of your stuff.

Having said that --

Let's look at "knob locks"

They come in two types, Tubular, and Cylindrical.

Tubular locks have "three sticks" going thru the door. One to activate the mechanism, and two for the tie screws. Kwikset and Schlage F line are both of this type and are residential.

Cylindrical locks are the other type. This is the widest used lock in the world. It consists of a bolt assembly which interlocks into the actual lock body, and a cylindrical body which carries the rest of the works. Lever locks are the same classes, with the new "Clutch" type the latest, and probably the best now.

Almost any lock can be "forced" except the clutch type, which only break off if enough force is applied, but even then you won't get in, because the actual mechanism is buried deep in the cylindrical body.

Apartments typically use a passage lock over a deadbolt to facilitate "one hand opening" as required by most codes. There are "interlocked locks" like Schlage G line, Schlage H line and Arrow Interlocked, which have a deadbolt and a knob lock combined into one mechanism, which opens with one turn of the key or knob / lever on the inside.

There is no "perfect" lock out there. Knob, lever, mortise, panic exit hardware, exit alarm, deadbolt, or any other type of lock.

At some point you need to accept the fact that locks will only do so much. AND accept that.

In the end, if somebody really wants to get in, they will. I have seen totally barred up store fronts pulled out via many methods. Deadbolts forced open via many methods, and it doesn't matter which one it is. Tubular, and cylindrical locks destroyed via many methods. In short, A LOCK is a LOCK. Nothing is fool proof, nothing is totally safe. There isn't one in the world which will give you total peace of mind.

The ONLY lock which I know of which is a major nightmare to get thru is a "FOX POLICE LOCK". If you are in or near New York you can find these on the east coast, as here in the deep mid-west, they are unknown. Put one of these on your door with a re-enforced cylinder guard, and you have one whale of a lock.

SInifar