question about electronic locks

[Outlaw Biker]

im just curious about this and i think the equipment for it would cost a lot if its even out there but i was wondering if you could open cars with something like there remotes my saturn manual says they change each time you use it and ive never heard of any thing like that but im old and my mind wanders a lot lol besides im too old to be up late robbing ppl lmao ty for any input rocky

[logosys]

im just curious about this and i think the equipment for it would cost a lot if its even out there but i was wondering if you could open cars with something like there remotes my saturn manual says they change each time you use it and ive never heard of any thing like that but im old and my mind wanders a lot lol besides im too old to be up late robbing ppl lmao ty for any input rocky

As much as I would love to help you, you're going to have to be a little more clear as to what your question is. Yes, you can open cars with a keyless remote. They generally run on a range of frequencies, and with properly calibrated sensors, you can detect what frequency the remote transmits at. You can then recalibrate an existing sensor to open the car on the frequency that you captured from the original remote. Such equipment is very delicate and not easy to come by as it is rarely used for noncriminal purposes. Locksmiths have no need for it, as they don't have access to a working remote. Car owners don't have a need for it because they have the original remote. Car dealers can look them up on the brand database and mechanics can dissasseble the computer and read them. Thus, unless you're up to date in your RF/IR frequency sensor, receiver and transmitter knowledge, and can make such a tool yourself then I'd say you're SOL.

[logosys]

Yes, I do have such a device because I made it myself as a design project in an EE class.

[Romstar]

The purpose of the changing codes is so that someone can't jack your unlock code, and retransmit it to your car at a later date.

This was an old trick back when they were doing it with automatic garage door openers.

These days, the trick still starts the same, but only to get a baseline code.

The algorhythms for these things are pretty well known. So, once you have the base line, you don't have to scan the entire range of codes. If you get a baseline on Tuesday, and try to use it on Friday, that car may have been locked, and unlocked remotely as many as 50 times.
Originally, that would mean that you couldn't just randomly transmit the code.

Today, with a computer, a transmitter, the proper algorhythm, and that baseline code you could probably get it within 30 mnutes or less. Sometimes a lot less.

Good luck trying to get the gear though. There is no real reason to manufacturer this stuff, so it doesn't exist unless you know how to build it.

Cheers,
Romstar

[Outlaw Biker]

i knew there was a way but i also know there are a lot easier ways to open a car plus with a super remote i can just see you opening a 100 cars at a time lol ty for your replies

[Dr Money]

A friend of mine was able to record and duplicate such frequencys on his PDA, it was really neat.

[hzatorsk]

Duplicating the frequency... or perhaps determining the frequency with a frequency counter and regenerating it again with the various types of radio gear isn't very hard. Most of these devices stamp their transmission frequency directly on the FOB. If you don't own one... go test drive a reasonably secured car and see for yourself.

The issue at 'cracking' these codes is more complex as my (wife's) bimmer FOB 'sequences' (does not use the same code each time) and if you try to fake it out, it will eventually lock out even the 'correct' remote temporarily (15 minutes?) requiring the owner to actually use the key to open the lock.

Some computers actually have an 'insert' mode to allow new FOBs to be added. For the others, the auto/lock mfgs sells tools to read/reprogram these FOBs directly to locksmiths and auto service centers.

But... alas... Bypassing them is not a lockpicking topic. If you don't have the FOB programmer (or know how to insert a FOB via the computer) properly for your customer... you are going to cause more grief than you'll resolve.

Cheers

[SFGOON]

Back in the mid 90's, a product was developed and marketed called the AGO, (for Automatic Garage Opener.) It would create and spit frequencies that would open most garage doors over time. The product failed for two reasons, it was prohibitively expensive and it would randomly open doors in an entire neighboorhood - not exactly a precision tool. I'm sure with a bit of effort one could be procured, but be prepared to pay through the nose for it. Granted it will not work on cars nor teach you anything about FOBs, but such products do exist.

[hung82000]

You probably wouldn't have good luck with it today anyway, as most newer garage door openers run on the same type of system as cars do. You have one set frequency and the code is generated by the transceiver each time based on a set algorithm. It would still work on older openers, but given their serviceable life I imagine any that work will be all but disappearing before too long.

[seahawk]

its called a rotating frequency when you use the code once and it switches to another. fyi

[sevenply]

This is kind of interesting. I remember hearing about two stories I believe recently of people getting locked out of their cars. Aircraft carriers came to port and supposedly peoples keyless entry stopped working for a bit and locksmiths were very busy. If their is a lockout of 15 minutes possible the ships were broadcasting something on similar frequences and the cars thought these were failed attempts and blocked access for 15 minutes. Possible if the ships continued broadcasting whatever they were broadcasting the 15 minute block could continually be activated? From a computer security perspective we would call this a DoS (Denial of Service).

[hzatorsk]

Sevenply

While the wrong key/remote or stray RF may prevent the owner from using his remote to unlock the doors, it won't prevent him from inserting his key into the lock and turning.

Exactly the same issue when the car battery goes dead.

...now... those of you with the new high end luxury cars that automatically unlock your doors for you and start up at the push of a button without a key, (because they detect the RFID card in your wallet). You chumps are at risk for a lockout. ...or at least a call to Onstar.

[toomush2drink]

It interesting hearing about the shipping interefering with car alarms as we have had cases over here where in certain areas people are unable to open their cars with the remote. There isa car park at a shopping center somewhere that has quite a reputation for it.

Check this site for more general info on diagnostics and such on car alarms/fobs. A few free downloads to play with also but thet may bring up a few warnings on your pc but ive had no problems with them.
http://www.advanced-diagnostics.co.uk/htm/main.php

Now think this stuff cost thousands with all the software you need so i wouldnt worry too much about your average thief getting it unless hes a pro.