Tension Wrench and Pick Set Case Advice

[phd_greg]

Hi all, new to the site - first post. Couldn't quite find a thread to answer a few fairly specific questions.
I have some very basic experience in lockpicking with a basic set of picks.

At the moment, a friend and I are speccing out a "bare minimum" beginner lockpicking set for some workshops we'll be running. We're on a pretty low budget, so we want just enough to teach people the basics.
Here's what we're planning so far for picks:
Triangle/Diamond (http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... LS-05.html)
Hook (http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... LS-06.html)
Snake/Rake (http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... LS-13.html)

My friend has recommended getting two tension wrenches:
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... TW-01.html
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... TW-02.html

My first question is:
Are these two different in any way other than the handle? (i.e. do they have any appreciable difference in functionality)
Judging by the pictures, they are the same thickness, depth, etc...


This leads to the second question:
Is it worthwhile getting two tension wrenches for such a minimal set?
If just getting one, I would get the second one since it helps the set lay flat. If the functionality is the same, then is it just a case of redundancy? Avoiding a single point of failure in a set?

The third question is:
Since we're in Australia, should we be looking at slim line wrenches?
If so, which would best serve our needs?:
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... TW-23.html
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... TW-22.html


My final question is Where to buy or how to make a case or sleeve for the set?.
Some kind of closeable pen or chopstick sleeve, or even a plastic tube with a cap would suffice... Anything classier than an elastic band, really

Many thanks in advance for any advice. If you're thinking of suggesting a premade set, please have an upper price limit of $15 - the set I've described, with both tension wrenches, costs just over $9.

[bembel]

You can make your own tension wrenches out of windshield wiper blades, it's exactly the same steel.
Making a tension wrench out of it takes about 10 seconds. Another 10 seconds to twist it if you like.
(I prefer the twisted ones because they're more comfortable.)
You can even file them down by yourself.

P.S. I don't know much about Australian locks, but from my own workshop experiences I do not recommend slimline picks. When I pick up the tools after a beginner's workshop, there are usually some hooks which are bent like a question mark.

[phd_greg]

I think to begin with we'd like to buy them - particularly since we don't have any spare windshield wipers sitting around (great tip though). Will definitely consider covering DIY tools in a later workshop though.
Regarding slim line tools - I wouldn't have thought it to be a big deal, but I have had difficulty using my tools (particularly my tension wrench which is not slim line) in some (but not all) locally made locks...

[phd_greg]

Keep forgetting I can't edit posts...
Regarding the case, I've had some amount of luck searching for suitable things on eBay - namely pen sleeves and sunglass pouches.
Since we were only planning on getting about 10 sets of picks, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12Pcs-Waterp ... 0835178710 was looking to be the most cost effective contender. However after putting my picks into a similar pouch I own, I think that the tips of the picks will demolish the fabric (which at that price won't be very thick/strong) pretty quickly...

Am now considering http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-BLACK-DUAL ... 0783716446 instead. May even have room for a small padlock.

[Solomon]

Those 2 wrenches are identical apart from the twist in the handle. I'm not big on the twist as it takes away feedback, but it is more comfortable to use... in saying that, I can pick all day with a standard wrench so it really comes down to personal preference.

Yes, it is worthwhile getting more than one wrench, even for a tiny beginner set. Even if your wrench fits, a tiny difference in size can make a world of difference. But you're teaching a workshop on picking, so I'm sure you know that. Right?

You could buy one of their other sizes, or even one identical for the purpose of modification. Personally I would go with their double ended euro wrench (TW23), as those are good all rounders. You could buy 2 for each set, and shorten the ends on one for TOK.

FYI, there is no notable difference between their slimline and standard wrenches. The only one which is really thin is the TW11 and you're not gonna be needing that very often.

Your pick selection is fine, although personally I would go with the city rake over the snake. You won't need the picks to be slimline either, by the way. Some lockwood keyways are a little restrictive but standard picks will do the job just fine.

Not too sure about cases. I keep a lot of my homebrew stuff and misc tools in old zipper cases, one was for a set of old bose earphones and one was for toiletries... I have a folding case for my cheapo picks but I don't know what it was for originally cos I found it at my mum's house. I got a decent pocket sized case with 3 compartments for my main homebrews, which is pretty good, but it was from a UK lockpicking website so that probably won't suit. The only thing I can think of right now would be a darts pouch... if you can get one of those which is just a basic snap-over case made of faux leather or similar material, it'd be a great idea for that size of kit, and you'd have a decent amount of room to add more tools as time goes on without it being stupidly big to strart with.

Hope this helps.

[phd_greg]

Awesomely helpful, thanks very much.
I'm now thinking of getting the TW-02 (standard twist) and TW-23 (double ended slim line) wrenches, to have as wide a variety of lengths, thicknesses and handle twists as possible.

Still undecided regarding the standard vs. slim line picks... I'm tempted to err on the side of caution and get the slim line ones anyhow.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-BLACK-DUAL ... 0783716446 is still looking like the best bet for a case.

[Solomon]

Those cases look sweet.

As for the picks, it's really up to yourself... but I know a guy in aus who uses standard sized petersons on a regular basis so I really don't think slimlines will be necessary. And southord slimlines are very easy to bend if you don't know what you're doing, so take that into account.

The wider end of the TW-23 is the same as the TW-02 so there is no point getting them both. The TW-03 is the same as the TW-02 but with a longer handle, and the TW-01 is the same again but without the flex. The actual end which goes into the lock is identical on all of them. There are actually only 3 differences in size. The 01, 02, 03, 20 & 21 are the widest, next size down is the 22, next down is the 11.

The only one of those wrenches I don't have is the TW-18... well, actually I don't have the twistflex tulip or the circular ones or the stupid feather touch thing either but you know what I mean. But I think it's safe to assume that the TW-18 is just a double ended version of the TW-01 (possibly so you can shorten one end to a length you want for TOK and leave the other as it is).

Aaaaaand that's why I recommended that you go with the TW-23, and get 2 for each set... because you'll have 4 possible ends after modifying one of them and it'll work out cheaper. The rest of the wrenches are practically the same with the exception of the TW-11 which is way thinner than necessary for the majority of locks so you really won't need it. Hope this clarifies things a bit better for ya.

[Luissen]

I like the standard straight wrenches, maybe because I've only tried a flex/twisted one once, and felt mushy. As for pick selection, I agree, a Hook (though I like to have a short and a long, but any usually works when starting) a Diamond/triangle and a rake.

[easy-e]

I would also recommend the "Standard" line of picks as opposed to slim line. They are cheap, and if you do find the shank is too thick, you can always grind or sand it down! When I first started out I bought 3 or 4 picks and I found I only really used a [url="http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-Tools/Individual-Standard-Short-Hook-Lock-Pick-SP-09.html"]Southord SP-09 Standard Short Hook[/url]. I had a lot of fun picking all sorts of locks but eventually as my lock collection grew, so did my tools. The picks without handles are perfectly adequate for people starting out.

I have the TW-01,02,03, and 11. I usually use my Peterson Prybars, but I also really like the TW-03 (long flex). The 11 is really thin and narrow and I've only used it on very small padlocks. A lot of it comes down to preference but one standard, and one flex would give the user a good variety.

A lot of the picks I've bought have been shipped in 2 or 4 mil poly bags with or without a cardboard insert. I used these as cases for a long time and haven't had any issues. I now have a larger case I keep everything in, but I still have a few poly bags with odd/extra picks in them. The lockpicks you referenced are 5 inches long and would fit great in 6"x2" poly bag. 90x150mm resealable poly bags look really cheap on ebay. I didn't see anything narrower. I would buy some white poster board and print whatever logo, directions, etc on a label and stick it to the poster board insert.

[phd_greg]

Thanks for the continued advice. I've talked it over with my colleague and the only thing we can't decide on is whether to go for the large or small diamond:
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... SP-06.html
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... SP-07.html

Any advice or preferences either way?

Good suggestion on the poly bags, will look into them!

[phd_greg]

Are there any recommendations regarding locks? The plan is to first canvas local locksmiths to see if any of them want to donate to the cause, but it's likely that we'll need to buy some at some stage regardless.
Cheap (and in my experience, very easily picked) locks can be purchased for about $4 each from hardware stores and supermarkets, but is there anything else to look out for or look into?

[easy-e]

Thanks for the continued advice. I've talked it over with my colleague and the only thing we can't decide on is whether to go for the large or small diamond:
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... SP-06.html
http://www.southord.com/Lock-Picking-To ... SP-07.html

Any advice or preferences either way?

There are some different theories on the half diamond. Is it a pick or a rake? Some people use it to SPP like a hook, but I consider it a rake. I would use my S-rake before using my half diamond. It's one of those personal preference things It's up to you about how you are planning on teaching the workshop.

Good suggestion on the poly bags, will look into them!

Sometimes it's best to just think simple!

[Solomon]

Small diamond. The slimline set I have came with both small and large, and the large one is ridiculous.

[phd_greg]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but just wanted to pop in and thank people again for their advice.
We've now received the picks and cases, and everything is going ahead smoothly.

The cases are snug and have a nice small form factor - just the right size to hold the sets firmly without letting them fall out or move around much. Could probably stick a few more picks in there with no issue, but the tension tools take up more space.

Here's a picture:

(the picks fit all the way in without problem, they've been pulled up for illustrative purposes)

[Luissen]

the biggest mistake I made when I started was not getting a "euro" wrench as well as a "normal" You can never have too many wrenches, (well maybe but I haven't reached that point yet)