Diagram/Measurements Request (BiAxial Medeco)

[GrandmasterPancakes]

Hey all,

I'm looking for a good resource of measurements and specifications (preferably a bitting code and accompanying images) for what I believe is called the BiAxial Medeco Key. The patent number is 4,635,455, so correct me if I'm wrong about the name of the key.

Thanks for any help!

[MBI]

Dear Mr. Pancakes,

The bitting will vary from lock to lock.

As to measurements, your best resource would be getting one of the locks. You can take measurements to your heart's content.

Other than this, I'm not really sure what you're asking for here.

[GrandmasterPancakes]

Sorry for the confusion, by bitting code i didn't mean a specific one, I meant a style or notation. Just like for SC1 and KW1 we can use a 5 digit number, is there a standard notation for these bi axial Medeco keys?

[MBI]

Sorry for the confusion, by bitting code i didn't mean a specific one, I meant a style or notation. Just like for SC1 and KW1 we can use a 5 digit number, is there a standard notation for these bi axial Medeco keys?

Medeco uses an alphanumeric blind code that is marked on a tag or code card that comes with the keys. It's not marked on the keys themselves.

The pins have have six depths (and in some cases half cuts), right, center and left rotation and the Biaxial models also have "chisel tipped" pins which are skewed either fore or aft (towards the front or back of the plug). All in all it gives a lot of possible combinations and permutations, but the blind codes contain all that information.

As to fore and aft cuts, keys in masterkey systems can have both fore and aft cuts for each pin position, if they are the same depth, to allow for more differs within a system.

I suggest using the search feature, or perhaps a google site-specific search of this site. There is a TON of info on Medeco locks already posted here which will likely answer many questions which might arise as you learn about these.

[keysman]

http://www.medeco.com/Other/Medeco/Down ... rature.pdf

see page 8

the technical service manual has all the info you are looking for and lots more

[GrandmasterPancakes]

Is there any way to obtain that manual without being a dealer?

-Pancakes

[Squelchtone]

If you tell us more about the project you are working on, we can be more helpful. Are you a hobby picker? A locksmith? A condo owner looking to make a copy of a key for the pool gate? A college student looking at their interesting dorm key?

I work with Medeco all the time and nobody in 6 years has asked me for Medeco notation, so Im just curious what the heck one would even use that for.

As already mentioned, Medeco Biaxial cuts have 6 depths and 6 angles/positions named K B Q and M D S

As an example, a 5 pin Biaxial key could be cut to 6K 3M 3D 4S 1B but that's about as technical as it gets for nomenclature.


Squelchtone

[GrandmasterPancakes]

Sorry about that, let me tell you about my project.

I'm a graduate student doing computer vision research. There has been prior work (google: Sneakey) that developed vision algorithms for reading the bitting code of SC1 and KW1 keys. I'm attempting to develop a vision algorithm for doing the same with Medeco BiAxial keys (or perhaps keys in general, but starting with Medeco BiAxial). One particular approach that we're exploring involves a priori knowledge of key measurements (and the key blank). As such, I'm trying to get figure out what defines a particular Medeco key (i.e what angles, offsets and depths are possible), and acquire enough measurement information to construct a digital geometric representation of the blank (or multiple blanks?).

Squelchtone, about your bitting code, don't these keys have forward/backward offsets?

I've glimpsed at the patent (the one printed on the keys) and I think its says that the angle offsets are +20, +10, 0 , -10, -20 and some other numbers are written; but I'm basically posting to see if someone more experienced in this than I am has better (and more visually modern) charts than the patent.

-Pancakes

[Squelchtone]

Sorry about that, let me tell you about my project.

I'm a graduate student doing computer vision research. There has been prior work (google: Sneakey) that developed vision algorithms for reading the bitting code of SC1 and KW1 keys. I'm attempting to develop a vision algorithm for doing the same with Medeco BiAxial keys (or perhaps keys in general, but starting with Medeco BiAxial). One particular approach that we're exploring involves a priori knowledge of key measurements (and the key blank). As such, I'm trying to get figure out what defines a particular Medeco key (i.e what angles, offsets and depths are possible), and acquire enough measurement information to construct a digital geometric representation of the blank (or multiple blanks?).

Squelchtone, about your bitting code, don't these keys have forward/backward offsets?

I've glimpsed at the patent (the one printed on the keys) and I think its says that the angle offsets are +20, +10, 0 , -10, -20 and some other numbers are written; but I'm basically posting to see if someone more experienced in this than I am has better (and more visually modern) charts than the patent.

-Pancakes

First, thank you for letting us know about the project, we appreciate you being open about it.

Original Medeco used Left Center and Right which were -20 0 and +20 for the respective angles. Biaxial also uses Left Center and Right but depending on the beFORE or AFTer center of pin cut "offsets" they are called K B Q and M D S

The trouble you will run into with Medeco is the ridiculous amount of keyway profile shapes and the fact that a side view of the key doesn't give you enough information to make a working key, where on a Schlage SC1 a side view is enough, because the bow identifies the brand, it is a very common keyway (unless you run into something more exotic like a Schlage E keyway or something) and the number of cuts and their depth is easy to decode from a side view. In order to map out a Medeco key (and I'm going to ignore the fact that there are so many unique and difficult to get key profiles) you will also need to get a top down view in order to recognize the angles. Really good lighting is required so you avoid shadowing which leads to reading the wrong angle.

An easier thing to do would be to make a portable mechanical cradle which would tolerate inserting any Medeco key into it's "keyhole" and it would use rotors to visiually decode depth and angle and put them on a mechanical readout like a hand held bar patron counter does, or an old school car odometer if you can imagine what I mean by numbers and letters on a rotor. This would mean that as long as you had access to the key for less than 5 seconds, you could insert it into the reader, press a hold button on the reader so it locks the wheels in place, allows the key to drop out and be returned, and then go back to workshop and make a key. Somewhere on the outside of this box could be a cavity where you would put in some modeling clay in a 3/4 inch by 3/4 inch are, and allows you to push the key into it to get a crude idea of the keyway shape in order to make a blank that can get past any wards that stick too much into the center of the keyway.

You could also have a similar box with a small cctv board camera to capture side cuts, and another small board camera to take pic of the angles. inserting the key presses a switch or triggers an opto sensor to take a picture and save the 2 jpg's for later review. cameras would have to have IR LED's to help with illumination inside the unit.

I'll just sit here and wait for that call from the TLA's about any job offers with their technical services divisions...
Squelchtone

[keysman]

.....

I'll just sit here and wait for that call from the TLA's about any job offers with their technical services divisions...
Squelchtone

You might be waiting a while.. you still need a way to manufacture / acquire a blank key and a way to cut it.


MR.GrandmasterPancakes
It would be best if you learned how a Medeco vs a normal pin tumbler lock works:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/179233/Makeup ... axial-Lock

[Sinifar]

Just to answer --

There is a LAB tool, "LDPMED" - EZ # 086797 which will identify and sort Medeco Biaxial bottom pins according to length and skew, and measure and identify the key as to the depth of the cut, and the skew. this has a grid to decode the fore - aft.

ALSO a HPC "Pocket Key Decoder" - this will read the depth and skew of the key, although you will still need to figure out the fore - aft for Biax.


Sinifar