Questions about tension and pin feel

[subver]

Hey guys, I just had a couple questions...
Pretty new to lock picking... I have picked a bunch of locks.. the hardest one being Masterlock 140.. even though I still can't consistently get it open.
So just a couple questions that I can't seem to figure out or find the answer to:

1) When a cylinder has a sort of spring action to it (for example.. Masterlock 140) I'm confused as to what tension I use. Do I turn the keyhole until the spring stops, or still just use light tension? I hope this question makes sense. For example, on Masterlock 140.. if I use my tension wrench I can turn the keyhole a couple degrees against the spring.

2) I'm still having trouble finding the snap of a pin when it's set. Some things I feel while using tension are:
--A lot of resistance... forcing the pin up gives me a sort of scraping feel. Is this the pin that is next to be set?
--With the resistance pin, if I keep pushing it up it will eventually pop up.. then sometimes won't give any resistance. Does this mean the pin is set, or does it mean the pin is OVER set?

I guess I'm having trouble feeling if a pin is set or OVER set. How can I tell the difference? Sometimes it feels like all the pins are set, but the lock won't open.. when I release tension I hear the pins fall down. When a pin has NO spring left, and I can just push it up without resistance, is this pin over set, or does it depend?

Anyway I hope these questions make sense. I can usually pick most simple non-security locks, but the masterlock 140 is still giving me trouble. Not sure if it's the spool pin or what. I just got a bunch of security pins in the mail today so I will practice with those and hopefully gain a better understanding.

Thanks guys!

[GWiens2001]

The Master 140 does have security pins. These are spool pins, usually two, but have found a couple with three spool pins.

To answer your question about what to feel for, strongly recommend you do a search on this site (blue 'search' button at the top) for Solomon's file, called Lockpicking Overkill. It will answer your questions, and many that you have not asked.

One question you asked that I will answer, for locks with a spring return tension. Apply enough tension that the pins start to bind when lifted. If no pins will bind, your tension is too light.

Gordon

[subver]

Thanks! I read it and it definitely helped.
I just bought a Master Lock 141D and picked it in seconds (multiple times!) It seems very easy to open, and from what I've read it should be similar to the 140.. so I'm not sure why that one is giving me so much trouble! I will keep at it, though!

[Mikeh727]

I'm still having trouble finding the snap of a pin when it's set. Some things I feel while using tension are:
--A lot of resistance... forcing the pin up gives me a sort of scraping feel. Is this the pin that is next to be set?
--With the resistance pin, if I keep pushing it up it will eventually pop up.. then sometimes won't give any resistance. Does this mean the pin is set, or does it mean the pin is OVER set?

Hey Subver,

I continue to have the same problem that you're having. I have Solomon's guide and it is an excellent resource, but for me there hasn't been anything that helps more than a whole lot of practice. I'm kind of 're-learning' how to pick with a hook. Up until recently, I only had ever picked with a half diamond, and with good results, but the hook has been kicking my butt. Locks I can open in seconds with a half-diamond I struggle with using the hook. To me, the feel and technique is a bit different and I just have to learn what that feels like. But what you're describing is exactly what I'm finding as I transition to the hook. With practice, I'm starting to approach that 'AHA!' moment on a more consistent basis.

Good luck!

[easy-e]

Up until recently, I only had ever picked with a half diamond, and with good results, but the hook has been kicking my butt. Locks I can open in seconds with a half-diamond I struggle with using the hook.

I understand that for high low bitting a hook could be useful but if the half diamond works for you then I say don't fix what isn't broke. Just keep doing what you are doing!

Happy picking!

[Mikeh727]

I understand that for high low bitting a hook could be useful but if the half diamond works for you then I say don't fix what isn't broke. Just keep doing what you are doing!

Happy picking!

Easy-e, thanks for the advice. You're right, it's the high-low bitting that I want to get with the hook. I go back to the half-diamond to boost my confidence when I get frustrated with the hook. I'll keep practicing with the hook, but I'm thinking the half-diamond is my pick of choice.