hook or diamond

[ARF-GEF]

It's not raking as long as you manipulate a single pin at a time. (SPP= single pin picking:) )
You can actually (in theory at least) pick (spp) with a rake...

[fgarci03]

there was no way I was going to be able to set the last pin without oversetting the fourth pin

You can apply tension the other way, so the last pin sets before the 4th. Then you can use the half-diamond.

I too think that way to set pins with a diamond is great. Never thought about it before

[Mikeh727]

You can apply tension the other way, so the last pin sets before the 4th. Then you can use the half-diamond.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this statement. If I apply tension the other way, other pins will unset. Or are you suggesting picking the entire lock with opposite tension? That might work...I'll have to give that a try.

[fgarci03]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this statement. If I apply tension the other way, other pins will unset. Or are you suggesting picking the entire lock with opposite tension? That might work...I'll have to give that a try.

Picking the entire lock the other way. The binding order completely reverses. So you would be able to pick that pin without disturbing the other.

Locks are often easier to pick to one side over the other, because of the binding order.
I had to pick a door lock. F-ing simple lock. COMPLETELY destroyed my self-esteem as I couldn't pick it. When I was ready to give up, I remembered and picked it the other way around. Took me 10 secs to open. Then used my plug spinner to unlock all the turns and open the door.

[easy-e]

I don't use my half diamond or other rakes very often. I generally SPP with a medium hook. Sometimes I'll rake a stubborn lock with my half diamond or city rake and then finish it by SPP. I also use a DCAP hook or a deforest for more difficult high low hitting.

I've also read that some people use their half diamond for dimple locks.

[IndigoChild]

I have to throw in my 3 cents about hooks or diamonds. Personally even though I am new I dont see the use of a diamond. As stated before There is always a better option. Wafer locks, hooks are kinda a love hate relationship with them. Wafers are very clumsy to feel around with a hook. A diamond would be better than a hook in this scenario, however the ball and double ball picks are designed specifically for wafer locks. Some of you may grit your teeth at this next one. An even better tool for just about any wafer lock in toolboxes, storage sheds, cabinets, the L Rake. Most of the time you don't even have to rake with the L Rake. Knowing the best tool for the job is key to being a successful lockpicker. Most of the time I aim for my deforrest halfball or deforrest half diamond. They are technically hooks and work quite well each similar in design but have a unique feel. Its almost like you are gently prying the pins. I got used to them and I barely even touch the pick or tension rod now. I definately suggest playing around and learn the feel of each type of lock and try to figure out what will be the best in the situation.

[ARF-GEF]

The deforrest is not a brand but a type right? At least I thought it was a name for a pick type. The one which goes out then breaks at an angle and has the same ending as a half diamond.
As if you bent down the tip of a long half diamond.

But now I'm not so sure.
Doe anyone know why are they called deforrest? A guy called DeForrest invented them? Or is it a brand?
Google didn't help so it's probably not a brand.

[fgarci03]

I believe it's not a brand, it's a kind of pick.
Can't help more than this

[Legion303]

Raking has its own set of skills aside from SPP, but it's generally easier as long as you have decent wrench control. I prefer the "bird beak" style of short hook, which is more precise than a 1/2 diamond for SPP but angled enough to let me pull the pick out in a quick rake if I need to.

Now that I think about it, I don't really like the 1/2 diamond at all. If I do need a rake, I'll reach for the Bogota, L or king picks first. :)

-steve

[fgarci03]

Now that I think about it, I don't really like the 1/2 diamond at all. If I do need a rake, I'll reach for the Bogota, L or king picks first.

Well, I usually do that too. But the other day I was picking a lock with a very tight keyway. The bogota didn't fit. The snake and L rake DID pop it open. But they got stuck in there and I couldn't remove them untill I "closed" the lock again (like when you can't remove a key when operating the lock).

So I reached for my half-diamond and gave it a quick rake and it poped in 3 or 4 sweeps, and managed to get it out again.
This is of course, an exception. But better to have the diamond ready

I don't use my diamond very often now. But sometimes, I couldn't be happier to always have it on my set!

[GWiens2001]

The deforrest is not a brand but a type right? At least I thought it was a name for a pick type. The one which goes out then breaks at an angle and has the same ending as a half diamond.
As if you bent down the tip of a long half diamond.

Yes, a deforest pick is a type of pick, also called an 'offset diamond' , and believe it falls under the category of reach tools.

Think it is named after the inventor, but not positive about that.

Gordon

[gr8tbaldone]

Quick question - I have a homebrew set of bogota's 3 hump, 2 hump, and a "1 hump" (and a baby-3 hump for smaller locks) - But I have heard the 1 hump called various things - hook, half diamond, etc.

How does a "1 hump" bogota compare to other hooks/half diamonds in your opinion? For a beginner that is trying to carry only a minimal set of tools on a regular basis, is the "1 hump" a decent starting point?

Thanks!

[easy-e]

How does a "1 hump" bogota compare to other hooks/half diamonds in your opinion? For a beginner that is trying to carry only a minimal set of tools on a regular basis, is the "1 hump" a decent starting point?

Thanks!

There are tons of threads on here recommending minimal sets of tools. As a beginner you need to find the tools you like the best. What works for you may not work for me, or the next guy, so you need to figure out what you use the most and gives you the functionality to pick the majority of locks that are common in your location. You may even find that you end up with more tensioners than picks.

Not sure if you have the Bogotas with the Raimundo style handle or conventional handles. I have all 7 of the regular Bogotas, the original Serepick titan 4 piece flat set (before they changed to the 7 piece), and the titan mini flats. The flat 4 piece set had a tensioner, a small hook, 3 hump, and a 1 hump with conventional handles. A 1 hump is very similar to a half diamond but it is the handle which is the main difference. The Raimundo style handle is great for raking because of the motion you can get. I see some people raking in and out very quickly, which can work, but a circular seesaw motion works better for me. With a conventional handle it's more of a sliding, tiling, and lifting motion than a circular one. I have SPP'd with the 1 hump flat Bogota or a half diamond but I prefer a hook because I can more effectively control single pins when picking. I also like hooks with flat tips so they don't slide off the pins as easily and make it easier to targeting and manipulate single pins.

[IndigoChild]

DeForrest: Half Diamond DeForrest: Half Ball


So named after the creator.
Functions like a tiny crowbar.
Diamond, More sensitivity
Ball, More manipulation.

I often use these picks in this manner. Angle the pick so that the hook is flat to the bottom of the keyway. Push it to the back and drop the handle down. Gently pull the pick out feeling and probing the resistance of the pins, Count them, Learn the order in which they will pick best. Pick your attack point and find the pin. Gently lower the handle so the hook pushes the pin up.

I find that hooks and diamonds you have to be more tactical by lifting the pins manually rather than prying them up. Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

[ARF-GEF]

Functions like a tiny crowbar.

? I thought they were to reach hard to get pins behind higher cuts? Crowbar?
But not as a tension tool right? I can't understand how that should work :S

I'm not sure whether I got it right: you "prop up" the pick to the bottom of the keyway and press the pins down as if you were operating a lever?
I'm not sure I understand this prying method :S