AM 5200 - Difficult pin configurations

[snake_wrangler]

What I've wondered (and haven't gotten around to trying) about pinning American locks: Does changing the top pins change the binding order? And, what top pins should be put where in the binding order to make it the most difficult to pick?

For example, if it binds 1-2-3-4-5, should you put in spool,spool,spool, spool, serrated to make it the most difficult?

[Squelchtone]

What I've wondered (and haven't gotten around to trying) about pinning American locks: Does changing the top pins change the binding order? And, what top pins should be put where in the binding order to make it the most difficult to pick?

For example, if it binds 1-2-3-4-5, should you put in spool,spool,spool, spool, serrated to make it the most difficult?

Binding order is dictated by the holes drilled in the plug in relation to an imaginary straight line which one would consider the center line of all the holes. Some holes will be on center, some will be off to the left, and some off to the right.

Squelchtone

[snake_wrangler]

That's how I figured it would work. But if differences in the pin diameter matter, you could change binding order. And, if you add in security pins it's all out the window. I'm just wondering if there's an "optimal" pinning for a core given it's binding order.

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

Binding order is dictated by the holes drilled in the plug in relation to an imaginary straight line which one would consider the center line of all the holes. Some holes will be on center, some will be off to the left, and some off to the right.

Squelchtone

With standard pins id agree... however when i shuffle pins around in my 5200, specifically for a different pick experience, it most defiantly makes a difference in binding order!!! Im guessing its due to small differences in the diameter of the spools and a change in the position the one serrated driver. Just my experience though.

[Squelchtone]

Binding order is dictated by the holes drilled in the plug in relation to an imaginary straight line which one would consider the center line of all the holes. Some holes will be on center, some will be off to the left, and some off to the right.

Squelchtone

With standard pins id agree... however when i shuffle pins around in my 5200, specifically for a different pick experience, it most defiantly makes a difference in binding order!!! Im guessing its due to small differences in the diameter of the spools and a change in the position the one serrated driver. Just my experience though.

That seems legit. I don't disagree.

[fgarci03]

Well, to answer the question, I do believe the binding order may change with different pins, for the reasons already explained, and maybe a few other I can't recall now.

The thing is... You can't control that. You can't make a configuration based on the binding order, because it might actually change the binding order again. There are too many variables out of our control. The idea is neat, but impractical.

This is, as always, my personall opinion, not a sacred rule!

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

snake-wrangler.... its best to put the serrated driver in positions 2,3 or 4. Also try switching the key pins up as well. If you think about what is happening with a spool in a false set you realize that the starting height of the spool will also change the binding order. You will get a very large false set if the key pin is like a 5 cut or whichever cut makes the center of the spool line up with the shear line. This configuration allows the spool to rotate the most before jamming up. Obviously the heights and locations of the other spools and as Squelch said the positions and accuracy of holes in the plug an bible all come into play for binding order in a lock with security pins.

[snake_wrangler]

Somehow, it seems like it should just be math. But the differences that are too small to measure make all the difference.

I just wonder why some crappy locks (in my case, a master 530) seem unpickable when others that should be hard (in my case an american 700) open fairly easily.

Then, if we could re-create that, well, picking would be that much more interesting. Maybe even fun, in a strange way.