How about this one? I invented it ...

[marginal]

I think I may be misunderstanding one of the diagrams. If I understand you correctly, you're picturing the plug follower as a hollow tube: the bottom pins and spring (and E4) are trapped inside it, and the key pins (and D5) are outside of it. If so, then it can't be any thicker than the tolerance between your plug and housing... and if that tolerance is too big then you could front-shim the lock pretty easily? (Again, I'm probably just misunderstanding something: it's late.)

That is what's my idea.
The tolerance between the plug and the housing has to be big enough to let a key pass through it anyway.
The plug follower shouldn't be thicker than the key sould it?

[MacGyver101]

The key occupies the space between B1 and B2. If you're using a one-piece plug follower, it would have to somehow occupy the space between E4 and E5 while you're sliding those parts together... and the gap between those parts is your shearline, which should be as tight as you can make it.

Put another way: unlike traditional pin-tumbler locks, where the keyway is in the center of the plug and the shearline is on the outside, this is reversed. Your keyway is on the outside of the plug, and your shearline (and the need for a plug follower) is inside the plug. I think that's going to create an assembly problem?

[ARF-GEF]

ARF-GEF,
Download Adobe Reader. Those are .pdf files.
Gordon

I already have Adobe reader 11
It seems to be working.
Funnily enough chrome opens one of the pages (the text) but not the other. Firefox can't open either :S

It's the Lock Matrix. All I see now is Schlage, Kwikset, Medeco..

LOL

[ARF-GEF]

Ha ok solved it.
I had adobe reader before, I'm not sure what the problem was. Other browsers opened them.

So about you design: If I get it right you key is basically a hollow tube with 3 spirals on the inside wall of it?

What I don't get is why don't the dummy pins block the lock all the time?
As you've shown them in FIG 5 they won't allow the lock to rotate no matter what.
I mean what stops the dummy pins from binding and stopping the turning just like real pins do.
Without the shear lien in them how can the plug turn?

Anyway very neat idea and excellent design! Congratulation on it
But are you sure it's wise to put it up there in the open of the internet? If I were an unscrupulous lock manufacturer I would have already sent it to the design department and now they would be working day and night to refine it and patent it before you do :S

It can be made shim-proof if you let the E5 overlap the E4 on FIG 5. So E5 would "encapsulate" E4 from the front. Like a sock is around you leg.

I agree with the you on that manufacturing would be expensive :S
Not only due to the complicated build, but also because all the relatively complicated forms have to be made very precisely. In comparison to a normal keyed safe lock where you can laser cut the levers relatively cheaply and pretty neatly from a simple sheet of metal.
If I walk into a shop a 14 lever safe lock for around 250 usd including manufacture, shipping, customs, the factory's profit and costs, the general importer's margin, and the seller's margin and that price is not even including taxes.
So you should try to find a design which can compete with that

But I definitely think it's a very good design and an excellent idea!

[marginal]

The key occupies the space between B1 and B2. If you're using a one-piece plug follower, it would have to somehow occupy the space between E4 and E5 while you're sliding those parts together... and the gap between those parts is your shearline, which should be as tight as you can make it.

Put another way: unlike traditional pin-tumbler locks, where the keyway is in the center of the plug and the shearline is on the outside, this is reversed. Your keyway is on the outside of the plug, and your shearline (and the need for a plug follower) is inside the plug. I think that's going to create an assembly problem?

Sorry, I was tired too yesterday .
I'll come back to you with an answer to that ...

[marginal]

ARF-GEF,
Download Adobe Reader. Those are .pdf files.
Gordon

I already have Adobe reader 11
It seems to be working.
Funnily enough chrome opens one of the pages (the text) but not the other. Firefox can't open either :S

It's the Lock Matrix. All I see now is Schlage, Kwikset, Medeco..

LOL

Hi GWiens2001.
Can you try downloading the file and opening it on your PC?

[ARF-GEF]

Gwiens tried to help me, I think he got could open them without a problem
But since then I managed to read them too

[marginal]

Ha ok solved it.
I had adobe reader before, I'm not sure what the problem was. Other browsers opened them.

So about you design: If I get it right you key is basically a hollow tube with 3 spirals on the inside wall of it?

What I don't get is why don't the dummy pins block the lock all the time?
As you've shown them in FIG 5 they won't allow the lock to rotate no matter what.
I mean what stops the dummy pins from binding and stopping the turning just like real pins do.
Without the shear lien in them how can the plug turn?

Anyway very neat idea and excellent design! Congratulation on it
But are you sure it's wise to put it up there in the open of the internet? If I were an unscrupulous lock manufacturer I would have already sent it to the design department and now they would be working day and night to refine it and patent it before you do :S

It can be made shim-proof if you let the E5 overlap the E4 on FIG 5. So E5 would "encapsulate" E4 from the front. Like a sock is around you leg.

I agree with the you on that manufacturing would be expensive :S
Not only due to the complicated build, but also because all the relatively complicated forms have to be made very precisely. In comparison to a normal keyed safe lock where you can laser cut the levers relatively cheaply and pretty neatly from a simple sheet of metal.
If I walk into a shop a 14 lever safe lock for around 250 usd including manufacture, shipping, customs, the factory's profit and costs, the general importer's margin, and the seller's margin and that price is not even including taxes.
So you should try to find a design which can compete with that

But I definitely think it's a very good design and an excellent idea!

Hi ARF-GE.
Yes, the key is a hollow tube, but the spirals may be 1, 2, 3 or 10, depending on the needs for more or less security.
The dummy pins as well as the working to ones will have (sorry I didn't think of that sooner) heads preventing them from going out more than needed.
I already applied for a search of a patent months ago, thank you for your concern.
I'll think about your last suggestion, and thank you for your input .

[ARF-GEF]

You have to be careful with the hollow tube. If the walls are thick, that need as big space and thus allowws a lot of space for manipuation.
If the walls are thin the key is vulnerable.
So I would recommend making the walls as thin as possible while making the key from sth as strong as possible.

[marginal]

You have to be careful with the hollow tube. If the walls are thick, that need as big space and thus allowws a lot of space for manipuation.
If the walls are thin the key is vulnerable.
So I would recommend making the walls as thin as possible while making the key from sth as strong as possible.

Still, using only common sense and a little knowledge of the lock picking procedure, how may one pick ten random pins (or more) among 50 (or more) in three spiral grooves (or more) simultaneously?

Thanks.

[ARF-GEF]

I thought about sth like the sputnik tool

I'm not saying it's easy, all I wanted to say is the more the place the easier it gets .
And we know thatit is in theory attackable due to the pin tumbler system. So why not make a possible way of attack harder?

[marginal]

The key occupies the space between B1 and B2. If you're using a one-piece plug follower, it would have to somehow occupy the space between E4 and E5 while you're sliding those parts together... and the gap between those parts is your shearline, which should be as tight as you can make it.

Put another way: unlike traditional pin-tumbler locks, where the keyway is in the center of the plug and the shearline is on the outside, this is reversed. Your keyway is on the outside of the plug, and your shearline (and the need for a plug follower) is inside the plug. I think that's going to create an assembly problem?

Sorry, I was tired too yesterday .
I'll come back to you with an answer to that ...

Hi MacGyver101.

No need for a plug follower here.
E4 and E5 being appart, we start inserting E4 into E5 slowly and in the same time inserting E1, E2, and E3 on each level (depth) of the lock.
The ONLY thing that is needed is, each E4 has to be offset towards E5 (each E2 and E3 between each E1/E6) in order to prevent alignment of the top and bottom pins E2 & E1/E6, and E4 has to be turned into E5 following the strict spiral pattern for the above-mentioned reason.
After we insert E4 into E5 completelly, we turn E5 onto E4 (or vice-versa) and align them the way they should be in the final assembled state.
This way, a gap between E4 & E5 is not needed and almost inexistent ...
I know this is no easy task, but we end up with almost no gap between E4 & E5.

Thanks.

[marginal]

So E5 would "encapsulate" E4 from the front. Like a sock is around you leg.

Hi ARF-GEF.

That IS the way it is as you can see on Figure 2.
B1 = E5 ONLY ...

Thanks.

[ARF-GEF]

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification

[MacGyver101]

E4 and E5 being appart, we start inserting E4 into E5 slowly and in the same time inserting E1, E2, and E3 on each level (depth) of the lock.

Ah, okay... I see where I was misunderstanding. All the pins can be top-loaded from outside the plug, and the outermost housing (D1) is the only thing that retains all of the pinstacks in the fully-assembled lock. (I assumed that Figure 5 showed the pinstacks as they would appear when the key was removed.)

That being the case, you've probably already thought of this, but make sure that your driver pins (E2) are far longer than shown in Figure 5; when the key's removed the key pins (E1) will be resting against the housing (D1)... and, if your driver pins (E2) are too short, it will only be the springs preventing the lock from opening.