No name mortise cylinder with interesting driver pins

[spandexwarrior]

I got a bunch of used mortise cylinders on eBay a while back and found a 5-pin no name Schlage clone that was pretty tough to pick. I thought it was a challenging bitting with spools but when I gutted it I found it had 5 unusual security drivers. I've seen these in TrioVing locks before, I believe they're called trampoline pins, but I've never seen them anywhere else.

Does anyone have any idea if there is a US source for these pins or a manufacturer that uses them? The cylinder looks like the ones American makes in various keyways but it's not marked so I can't be sure. I also think it was re-keyed since it has a mix of different but standard key pins and some file marks on the plug to smooth out the sheer line.




-Brian

[phrygianradar]

I have a mortise cylinder that looks very, very similar and it is made by American Lock Company. Yours looks like it has deffinately been re-pinned. Perhaps it is an American clone? Cool driver pins in any case!

[GWiens2001]

Have seen those pins before. I know them as barrel pins. Do not know of any Schlage clones that would use them. PhrygianRadar is likely correct and the lock has been repinned.

Gordon

[ARF-GEF]

I agree that it has been repinned. I've yet to see a lock with only sneaky pins. Even the top factory made lcosk tend to have at least 1 "normal" driver pin.
I've seen very similar pins in Triovings...
But it definitely is not a Trioving.
Maybe the pins came from those.

[fgarci03]

I'd kill for a Trioving with those pins

[cledry]

Look at the bottom pins too. That should give you a clue that it has been rekeyed. A good locksmith would use at least 1 normal driver pin and would have swapped out these plat bottom pins.

[ARF-GEF]

A good locksmith would use at least 1 normal driver pin

Cledry:
I know that is the "rule" but why?
I feel it makes picking a bit harder for me, but that is really sth subkective? Is there any specific reason why do lockies and factories almost always leave 1 full driver pin in?

[cledry]

A good locksmith would use at least 1 normal driver pin

Cledry:
I know that is the "rule" but why?
I feel it makes picking a bit harder for me, but that is really sth subkective? Is there any specific reason why do lockies and factories almost always leave 1 full driver pin in?

Yes there is a reason. If you have all spool drivers the plug can turn slightly which makes putting the key in the lock more difficult. A single solid driver will keep the bottom and top chambers in alignment. You definitely would have problems with any lock that places any turning preload on the cylinder.

[ARF-GEF]

Cool, thanks for the info

[In.Xanadu]

A good locksmith would use at least 1 normal driver pin

Cledry:
I know that is the "rule" but why?
I feel it makes picking a bit harder for me, but that is really sth subkective? Is there any specific reason why do lockies and factories almost always leave 1 full driver pin in?

Yes there is a reason. If you have all spool drivers the plug can turn slightly which makes putting the key in the lock more difficult. A single solid driver will keep the bottom and top chambers in alignment. You definitely would have problems with any lock that places any turning preload on the cylinder.

Thanks, I've always wondered about that, and while your explanation makes perfect sense and is completely intuitive, I don't think I would have guessed it for myself.

I'd guess then that the lock was re-pinned by someone else interested in picking who wanted to assemble a fun challenge lock. Any indication of this being so from the rest of the locks?

[fgarci03]

A good locksmith would use at least 1 normal driver pin

Cledry:
I know that is the "rule" but why?
I feel it makes picking a bit harder for me, but that is really sth subkective? Is there any specific reason why do lockies and factories almost always leave 1 full driver pin in?

Yes there is a reason. If you have all spool drivers the plug can turn slightly which makes putting the key in the lock more difficult. A single solid driver will keep the bottom and top chambers in alignment. You definitely would have problems with any lock that places any turning preload on the cylinder.

Cledry, I cannot vouch for what i am saying, as I've never had any of those to see for myself. But the TrioVing spools are meant to be used without any other pins. As you can see, they are fat on the middle. Kinda like a double mushroom facing one side each. That is meant to prevent the wiggle that happens when there are only spools on the lock. I have a lock with only spools that is kinda easy to pick. And these trioVing are considered nightmares, because you can't set a pin on the first time you lift it.
What happens is that when you lift, it stops binding, as it starts to bind on another spool. Then you lift that one and it starts to bind on another one. So in order to pick one of these, you have to go back and forth on every pin untill they all set.

I read this on Deviant Ollam's Practical Lockpicking. He says that he can only consistently pick these locks with only 3 pins. More than that is nightmarish.

And many TrioVings come with 7 pins...

Again, this is just what I've read, not personal experience.

[cledry]

Cledry, I cannot vouch for what i am saying, as I've never had any of those to see for myself. But the TrioVing spools are meant to be used without any other pins. As you can see, they are fat on the middle. Kinda like a double mushroom facing one side each. That is meant to prevent the wiggle that happens when there are only spools on the lock. I have a lock with only spools that is kinda easy to pick. And these trioVing are considered nightmares, because you can't set a pin on the first time you lift it.
What happens is that when you lift, it stops binding, as it starts to bind on another spool. Then you lift that one and it starts to bind on another one. So in order to pick one of these, you have to go back and forth on every pin untill they all set.

I read this on Deviant Ollam's Practical Lockpicking. He says that he can only consistently pick these locks with only 3 pins. More than that is nightmarish.

And many TrioVings come with 7 pins...

Again, this is just what I've read, not personal experience.

That makes sense. I was thinking of the more common normal spool pins.