Proposed FEDERAL LAWS regulating Locksmiths

[cledry]

we may both be locksmith But my business model is different than anyone running a shop. I focus mainly on emergency services like Auto keymakes & repairs. I do a lot of work for dealers at thhere lots and real estate agents at there properties. right now I am service-based and not sales based. I do not have a big market for sales. I have uniforms a new and very nicely labeled vehicle, and the top equipment for automotive and residential work I am just as professional as anyone running from a shop. I just provide a different service. do I want a shop in the future? maybe. we'll see.

Thanks for your reply. There is room for everyone. Business is good. We do no automotive other than openings and whatever is brought into the shop. As you say we have a different business model. A shop represents an investment in money and personnel and not every market is good for a shop.

[alockguru]

Question for all you 1 man mobile businesses. How do you answer your phone and manage to get your work done? Do you let it go to answering machine and return the call or do you answer each call?

We have 3 phone lines, a fax line and an IM line for internet calls. This is one reason why we have a shop. There is hardly a second in the day when something doesn't need answering. As a single man operation we couldn't possibly get any work done.

They can't...

It isn't very professional for any tradesman, be it a locksmith, electrician, plumber, etc to be charging for their time on a job when they are constantly answering their phone to deal with other business... Not only does it take much longer to do a job when you keep interrupting it to deal with your phone, this is the sort of issue that an assistant working at your OFFICE, not at your house, should be dealing with...

You aren't going to be doing much real business on projects where architectural/engineering plans need to change hands and be signed for if you are a one man mobile operation... Projects like those are what keep the larger businesses in any trade in operation, not chasing around one time service calls hoping the customer will remember you and call you when they need that service again...

If you can not afford an office somewhere in a place other than your home, with adequate space to meet with potential clients and store your inventory while having someone there during business hours 100% of the time to answer your phones, open your mail, be able to accept legal process and to comply with any audits or compliance checks then you shouldn't be in business... A one man business takes your life away and ages you faster than need be...

~~ Evan

Well You don't need a office to higher someone to answer your phones, there are plenty of dispatch services that will do this for you I do agree tho that if your call volume is that high then it is a good idea to spring for a small office with a receptionist/dispatcher. I'm assuming with that many calls you'll have branched out and expanded to more then 1 service vehicle unless your capture rate is horrendous and your not turning them into paying calls.

I do answer my own. Its not really a big deal. I don't have ridiculous volume to where it hinders my work. Mobile locksmiths means your driving a lot and with a hands free device its pretty laid back. I prefer it over someone answering for me. If I am standing with a customer I will wait to call back. If Im working on something that needs full attention I will wait to call back. Generally calling back with in 10 minutes wont loose you any work unless its just a lock out.

I can tell you with 100% certainty my one man business is way more relaxed then when I ran the LS division for a national company. I work less, make more, and do not have to stress about dealing with the screw ups of others.(just my own ) So i disagree with your last remark

[Evan]

I can tell you with 100% certainty my one man business is way more relaxed then when I ran the LS division for a national company. I work less, make more, and do not have to stress about dealing with the screw ups of others.(just my own ) So i disagree with your last remark

Low volume is cool I guess...

But while you are driving, you really can't take a serious call, its just not safe...

Yes you want an office somewhere, even if it is just one room, with a person answering your phones... it is NOT professional to be dealing with any other business while serving a customer, no excuses... A large phone answering service is cool and all, especially for overnight coverage of the phones but it will cost you more than an office assistant during the day if you want them to triage calls or keep track of where you are, that is not the usual service a call center answering service provides... And your call center can't sign for packages or accept delivery of stock orders like an assistant working at your office can...

You also can't deal with billing and invoicing, so you are leaving work to do later on or are handwriting invoices which you later have to enter into some kind of accounting ledger or software which is more work...

I guess if you want your small business to totally invade and envelope your life and you aren't bothered by that it is less stressful... I like a job where I don't have to take work home with me at the end of the day and I only need to worry about anything when its my turn to be on call...

~~ Evan

[averagejoe]

If you can not afford an office somewhere in a place other than your home, with adequate space to meet with potential clients and store your inventory while having someone there during business hours 100% of the time to answer your phones, open your mail, be able to accept legal process and to comply with any audits or compliance checks then you shouldn't be in business... A one man business takes your life away and ages you faster than need be...

~~ Evan

What about small town locksmiths? The one in our town is retired and just does it for a few bucks here and there. Should he have an office and a store front for the 1 or 2 customers a week? Sometimes he gets a call every 2 weeks. Should we have to go without a local locksmith just because our need cannot support a full business?

The only other options is to call the locksmith shop a 2 hour drive away. They charge $350-$400 just to come to town.

[Evan]

If you can not afford an office somewhere in a place other than your home, with adequate space to meet with potential clients and store your inventory while having someone there during business hours 100% of the time to answer your phones, open your mail, be able to accept legal process and to comply with any audits or compliance checks then you shouldn't be in business... A one man business takes your life away and ages you faster than need be...

~~ Evan

What about small town locksmiths? The one in our town is retired and just does it for a few bucks here and there. Should he have an office and a store front for the 1 or 2 customers a week? Sometimes he gets a call every 2 weeks. Should we have to go without a local locksmith just because our need cannot support a full business?

The only other options is to call the locksmith shop a 2 hour drive away. They charge $350-$400 just to come to town.

Well if you want the honest answer, yes... I mean your "town" has no offices ?

People who start up businesses need to realize that regulatory authorities who want to do spot checks (especially on records retention) won't want to make an appointment to do that in your home...

If you can't afford an office, then you need someone who is your business agent and keeping your files/records accessible during business hours...

There is no excuse for this, so many government agencies can call for an audit during business hours unannounced to make sure you are keeping the proper records, department of revenue, local tax assessor, the licensing authority for locksmiths (if one exists in your state)... If you can't afford to have your own office or engage a business agent to be able to substitute for you on your behalf, then you shouldn't be in business...

~~ Evan

[cledry]

I would say that calling back in 10 minutes will definitely lose a lot of customers, at least our customers. Customers are impatient and pushy, and to get their business then you need to be at their beckon call. I know it is a pain but that is the way you get high volumes of work.

We do a lot of work for national service providers, probably 50% of our calls, they are throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars our way each year. They will call the next guy if you don't play by their rules, this means answering the calls when they call, providing proper paperwork within 24 hours and before and after photographs as well as quotes. I am glad many guys don't want the bother of dealing with these guys, it can be a hassle. I am also glad many guys don't want a shop. Not really happy with the retired guy doing work for a few bucks, but I doubt they really would be much in the way of competition.

[globallockytoo]

and the unlicensed sheisters will still get away with their sham, because there is no enforcement of existing regulations. I was at the first trial of Dependable Locksmiths in Chicago, about 5 years ago. The Illinois Dept Of Professional Regulation threw the book at them, fined them a heap of dough and cancelled their PERC cards.

They simply reopened in another name and continued their scam. All with new licenses.

5 years later (a few months ago)....after the appeals process was thoroughly investigated by higher courts (the American way), the decision was overturned in favor of the defendant, because of improper court procedure and a conflict of interest by the judge.

Licensing and regulation of the locksmith business will only serve to make barriers of entry more difficult for wannabe locksmiths.....it will drive up costs considerably for customers and the companies with the more powerful lobbyists (he big box hardware stores) will get themselves exempted from any laws that come about. Tow truck companies will be exempted from opening cars, mechanics will be exempted from owning or operating key cutting machinery and programming machinery.

The only regulation worth considering is to regulate the suppliers of specialized tools and equipment. Force the suppliers to only sell to state approved companies that practise in accordance with state/peer approved certification requirements.

Sure, prices will still rise, but the barriers of entry will not be there preventing newcomers or old timers from practising the trade.

[maintenanceguy]

No worries: Just because an organization proposes legislation doesn't mean it's anywhere close to happening. And if it does, the "protect consumers from fraudulent locksmiths act" will be amended so many times that none of the proposed language will exist and it will just include amendments to make guns illegal, expand the government's right to tap American phones, increase the salary of congressional barbers, give free healthcare to family pets, and eliminate the odd numbered amendments of the bill of rights.

Rant over.

About the proposal:


ALOA Proposes to Criminalize Acts of Locksmithing

Proposed Addition to C.F.R Title 16: Commercial Practices: Rules Applicable to Locksmiths

It is an unfair act or practice for a locksmith to:

1) Break, pry, drill, or otherwise damage or destroy a lock or other security device where industry standards dictate that such an opening should be performed by picking or otherwise performing the opening in such a manor as to avoid causing damage. No big deal, unenforceable after the work is done no one can tell if the lock was pick-able.

2) Cause damage to an entryway, locking device, window, or other property not in accordance with industry standards.Also unenforceable unless there were written industry standards.

3) Require that payment be in cash only.Some customers won't get service. Some customers payment history has made them cash only.

4) To charge more than 50% higher total charge industry standards for that local dictate when on a service call. Free market should set the prices, not a government sponsored price fixing scam.

5) Misrepresent arrival time to a service call by more than 30 minutes. Such misrepresentation may be considered criminal if habitual, fraudulent, and or committed between the hours of 9:00 PM and 7:00AM.Just silly. Can you imagine applying this to your doctor?

[Capt_Tom]

I am curious. If you guys hire a plumber or a roofer or some other trade, wouldn't you prefer someone with a physical business address? Other than word of mouth how do you choose a plumber for example or an AC repair man? Do you shop by price?

I'm not saying being a mobile business makes the business any less legit, but personally I would prefer to deal with a brick & mortar shop where I can go in person if there is an issue with some work or a part that I purchased.

According to the author of the article.... Mobile Locksmiths make up more than 85% of the trade.

I know a great mobile locksmith with a super successful business. Someone convinced him to open a store front. He rented a building, stocked it, and hired someone to run it. Last year, he found that he had to pull the other service tech in to SIT in the shop. This forced him to turn down work (and income). He had to lay off the other tech, and either sit the shop himself, bring in his wife (with two small and energy burning kids) or put a closed sign on the door. He is still struggling, and has had to move out of his home. I am not sure, but with the new partitions in the rear, I think that he is living in the rear of the shop. All this to be considered legit??

[Sinifar]

MY experience --

Brick and mortar. Uhuh... this is a real money loser is this economy with the stingy people we have around here. At one time we had three -- 3!! count em store fronts. So what happened?

Big boxes opened and the people around here only care about the low cost of the junky locks that they sell at unbelievably low prices. For example, one box around here was selling Kwikset Camel line. If you don't know Camel is an all plastic lock sold to the manufacturing housing industry, read that mobile homes. They were selling them for a whole whopping $10.00 !! for an entry lock. At the time, we were selling Kwikset Tylo for $22.50 and "400" for $32.90. WHAT A RIP OFF!! We are taking the public!!

I bought one from them, sectioned the thing, and put the cut lock on the counter with one of our "400" locks. It looked impressive - all steel basically v/s all plastic. It did not matter to the consuming public -- all they wanted was the $10.00 lock. The fact that it was $10.00 was all that mattered to them. Everything else was taking them.

Our shops were neat, clean, well stocked, and manned by knowledgeable people. It did not matter. the only thing that the public wanted as a LOW PRICE. Which is how the scammers work - they offer a low price on the phone, then it goes to the moon once they have you on the hook. Now what are you going to do?

When we were still making the VATS original keys they screamed how "high" the price was, about $125.00 v/s $1.50 for a regular GM key - and - they just knew the DEALER would be cheaper. Well after the fact they found the dealer was three to as much as six times higher when they replaced all the locks on the car -- what are they going to do?

In the end, we decided that having store fronts was costing us too much just to be "on the street" - the commercial work was paying the bills and that is where our cash came from, not retail anymore. One by one we closed down the shops, and today we are back at home, in the basement of our condo.

SO does that mean I don't have a SHOP?

If you are adventurous enough to even come down here, and who knows what evils lurk in the bunker, you might be surprised.

There is a full showroom, with all the displays from the old shops set up, nice and neat. A counter, office and a full back room to do anything in the world. Lots of parts, stock and everything else one would want.

With the current economy, having to shell out $1200 a month for rent alone, is enough to bust most smaller shops today. There just isn't the volume of work which we had even 7 years ago to justify that. The commercial work has slowed down as the economy shifted gears. We do get new accounts all the time, but are also losing old ones as they fold up and blow away.

Just in the past 10 years, we lost two major food store chains when they closed up shop. That meant that 62 grocery stores were taken off our table. Several other major businesses also closed up shop, and along with the almost 950 jobs, there went a couple of more big jobs off our table. Six parochial schools have quit. This meant another batch of clients went away. It just goes on and on daily. It is fight to hang onto what you have for your current client list.

AND they are not going to the competition, they are just gone. The big gone. Empty buildings which in the end get torn down. When we lost the YWCA, in six months they tore that thing down and started to build houses on the vacant lot. It still has a long way to go to fill in that major location.

Car work had become a major money pit with all the new stuff coming out yearly. In time as I told Stratec at the last show -- "In time there will be no more car keys, just a fob and a push button." Look at cars today. Only one lock if that much. Opening cars? It is getting harder to open them as I write this. With the new tools you can get in, but it takes a lot of work. AND PRICE?

Well the cops did it for years -- and they did it for free! So why can't you do it for free? At one time cars were 30% of our trade. Since 2002 it has gone to nothing. No calls, no requests for duplicate keys. I don't know how the guy is doing up at the local mall, but he only does the new keys, and he is one of the only ones around here doing it. Most shops have given up the car biz. there is no real return on the investment of almost $20,000 to get into the new key and fob business. If you are doing well. my hat is off to you. but in this market, forget it.

Today from 3 stores and 4 trucks on the road, and nine employees, it is down to one very old man and a station wagon filed with everything. It is lettered and looks neat. Can go out and do anything our commercial accounts need at any distance. The shop down here does OEM keying for four door and hardware suppliers. Nothing like quick turn around on custom master keying work to the spec, and at a LOW PRICE. Yes I do have to prostitute myself to get work, but then what else are you going to do today?

In the end, I guess we are "mobile only" as far as most are concerned. But know there is still a shop down in the bunker, with all the bells and whistles and people to answer the phone and take whatever work does come by and do it. Just today you have to do what you have to do to survive in this miserable economy.

At 65, I have 45 years in the trade. Have watched it go from super busy, to dead in that time. Some on the street shops are consolidating into one store front instead of several, and reducing their staffs as the times get tougher. More are going our route, and simply dumping the expense of the store front, which nobody comes to anyway, and relocating to a more economical climate at home.

If you are reading this and are doing well, thank your lucky stars. Some shops which have held onto the on street location for ages are doing well at the old stand. But most are finding that although work is steady, it is declining with the new "Z-wave" locks coming into the market. Look to this as the future. There will be no more keys one day, only a smarty pants phone to lock and unlock your house, and run everything in it and your whole life.

I guess in the end -- this industry is like the buggy whip industry. We will be around in some fashion, but at a much lower level. AND if you think you are going to set the world on fire with your mail order locksmithing certificate, you got another guess coming. We have had tons of these people in and out of the biz in the past several years as people thought they could "run their own business" -- got into our line -- and found that they didn't have enough education which only comes from experience - to make it.

Federal laws regulating locksmiths? We don't need more stuff to make our lives more complicated than it already is. Laws should be a local issue, and enforced. Trust me, they will try, but with the scammers it is playing "Whack a Mole" and as "Lookout" see the ABC series on the lockout issue, said, it is an Israeli Mob problem. You aren't going to fix this one.

I could go on, but enough for today's rant.

Sorry about that!

Sinifar

[globallockytoo]

http://youtu.be/7mcE7Td0u44

[Capt_Tom]

Well said Sinifar. You have me by a couple of years. I am 62. I work from home as a MOBILE service. (Also had a storefront in years past) My licenses, bonding papers, Insurance, etc. are in the book on the dash. I give people a price before I go on the job, and will stick to it unless there is something different than described. In that event, I reprice BEFORE I begin. I have a good reputation,and plan to keep it that way. I have locksmith friends with storefronts and some strictly mobile like me. I am also familiar with some with whom I refuse to associate. One with a storefront and one without. I won't get into the reason for my disdain, but it is justified. My point, we can all get along and go about our business... we just need to be beyond question HONEST and FAIR!

Wish you WELL... ALL OF YOU

Tom

[Evan]

Wow,

So much back and forth about store fronts and offices...

An office does not have to be a store front...

An office has to be in a building zoned for commercial use and open during customary business hours...

There is a great difference in the type of person required to operate an office and a store front... With an office you are hiring a person to keep your records and answer your phones, not the same as an "almost ready for the road" technician type that you would need to operate a store front...

So the evidence that has been argued thus far against having an "office" has been:

• rent
• difficult to staff
• it costs money that just isn't needed

The difficulty in finding someone to staff a store front in this industry usually stems from the sort of attitude that many locksmiths/owners seem to have that they know everything and all their employees must do everything the way they are shown/taught... Aside from that there are so many people willing to make keys and do bench locksmithing work in such environments... LOL... In fact many shops lure people in with a promise to train such people, but in reality the good shopkeeper is so difficult to replace and with so many mobile locksmiths struggling why train the key cutter to work in the field when a guy with his own vehicle and tools who needs to feed his family would take the job for the cost of new lettering on his truck ? So lets stop complaining about the staffing, it is a non-issue unless you are really _that_ bad with people including your own employees...

A store front will cost more to rent that office space...

It is not professional to operate your business out of your basement or condo... Seriously, like you must never ever get big project jobs -- an office in a decent fully ADA accessible building makes you look much more professional even if you are actually an unskilled hack... In business appearance counts for a lot -- ever been to a big job interview, you dress up fancy, not show up in jeans and a t-shirt... Would you want to work for or offer business to a company that operates out of a basement ?

Anyone who is operating a business without an office may in fact be violating their state's laws regarding having a place of business which is open during business hours which may be called upon by officials for official purposes related to the licensee's operating a commercial entity in that state...

A home office is for people to work on stuff at home in their own name, not see clients, not operate a commercial business using another name...

~~ Evan

[Sinifar]

Evan, I have a variance from the planning commission to work out of this place. So it is "legal" -- have all the biz licenses and permits I need to run out of here.

As far as big jobs, how big do you want them? We recently rekeyed two school districts, and a large factory. They really don't care what you "work out of" as long as you do the job as expected. With our experience most know who we are, and have never been down here in the bunker, nor for that matter back in the day, they never came into the shop.

What's professional? The way you look? Wear a neat clean lettered uniform. Your road unit should be lettered, and clean inside and out, not a rusty relic looking for a junk yard. It is also knowledge. Keep up on current codes and practices in the trade. Become a fire door inspector. The store front is just that - a store front which anyone can rent out. What counts is what you do, and how you appear on the job, and the professional way you do the work. Neat, complete, and perfect.

AS far as having personnel on hand, my wife ran the main shop for 27 years and now works here on OEM projects as well as answering the phone and handling problems as they come in. ASK her anything about commercial locks and you will get the right answer.

I do the back shop work, designing the MK systems, cutting the keys on the Framon, and getting her ready to load out the cylinders. Both of us work the books as we come to the job. ON the road, I do most of the install myself, or if needed, I can tap into my daughter, who is also a locksmith, or now my granddaughter, who is pretty much a journeyman at this point in her life. Both have other jobs and help dad out as needed.

This is a security team effort which works in today's economy.

In these tough times, you do what you got to do to make the thing work.

Sinifar

[cledry]

I am curious. If you guys hire a plumber or a roofer or some other trade, wouldn't you prefer someone with a physical business address? Other than word of mouth how do you choose a plumber for example or an AC repair man? Do you shop by price?

I'm not saying being a mobile business makes the business any less legit, but personally I would prefer to deal with a brick & mortar shop where I can go in person if there is an issue with some work or a part that I purchased.

According to the author of the article.... Mobile Locksmiths make up more than 85% of the trade.

I know a great mobile locksmith with a super successful business. Someone convinced him to open a store front. He rented a building, stocked it, and hired someone to run it. Last year, he found that he had to pull the other service tech in to SIT in the shop. This forced him to turn down work (and income). He had to lay off the other tech, and either sit the shop himself, bring in his wife (with two small and energy burning kids) or put a closed sign on the door. He is still struggling, and has had to move out of his home. I am not sure, but with the new partitions in the rear, I think that he is living in the rear of the shop. All this to be considered legit??

Not sure I'm following this story. The man he hired to run the shop was unable to do so so he had to bring in his only other road guy in to run it? I'm just curious why he didn't just hire someone to replace the guy who was running the shop? I noticed you put SIT in capital letters, I assume to show that there wasn't enough to keep the shop guy busy. If that is the case then he shouldn't have opened a shop without first checking out the other shops to see if they were self-supporting. The shop should be able to at the very least pay the rent, pay the utilities and pay the employee running it, ideally you want more on top of this, but at least breaking even means it isn't hurting the business. Think of it as a billboard that doesn't cost anything and often pays its own way.

I've seen shops fail here too, and I have worked at poorly run shops. You can be the best locksmith out there and still not be a good businessman.