question about setting the pin

[Hugokhf]

After thousands of attempt, I am still not yet able to pick my first lock, an ERA cylinder (no security pin etc.)

I am not able to re-pin the thing, as the metal ring is so tight that the whole thing is literally under the cylinder.
I don't have the right tool to do it/

anyway, I am trying on the lock as usual today, than I tried pushing every pin in as hard as I can.
btw, I can't make a full contact to the pin (like those pdf explaining the mechanism, as the ward is not straight under the pins, I twist it slightly in order to make contact with the pin)

anyway, even though I pushed as hard as I can with every pin (not that hard, as there's not much room to wiggle around to push)
I tried to cheat and keeping the tension, I try to peak under the lock.
There is no over-setting at all.
The cases are all the same height hanging down, al 5 of them.

this makes me think, am I doing something wrong when I am pushing the pin? seems like the pin is not really reacting at all!

ps I am sure I am sure the wrench is turning the right way, as it can do both way with my keys.

Cheers guys, I will try to make a video on my picking (failing to pick) once I figure out how to upload it.

[Hugokhf]

this is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeSDMyxhJE0

nothing much recorded at all though

oh, and I am using hook btw

(SOUTHORD)

[fgarci03]

Hugo, have you read "Detail Overkill" by our member Solomon?

It will help you a lot. You can't just lift the pins, hard. You need to find the binding pin and lift it untill it sets. If this sounds weird to you, you should totally read that book, as it teaches you these basic concepts that will allow you to improve your skills in no time.

Just use the search function to find it!
Good luck

[Hugokhf]

Hugo, have you read "Detail Overkill" by our member Solomon?

It will help you a lot. You can't just lift the pins, hard. You need to find the binding pin and lift it untill it sets. If this sounds weird to you, you should totally read that book, as it teaches you these basic concepts that will allow you to improve your skills in no time.

Just use the search function to find it!
Good luck

I know about the binding pin.
It is the 'stiffest' pin, and I sould put that up first.
am I right?

also, thanks for the recomended read.
cheers

[fgarci03]

I know about the binding pin.
It is the 'stiffest' pin, and I sould put that up first.
am I right?

Your are correct!

Now that I know we are speaking the same language , once you find it, lift it carefully untill you feel it set. You should feel a faint click. That means it's set.

You should use light tension to allow the pin to lift, or it'll be stuck. What do you feel when you lift the pins?

[Hugokhf]

I can't feel it 'set', I do the speed bump method to identify the binding pin, than I lift it up.
I then do the speed bump again to find the new binding pin, and more often than not, it was the same pin as before.

I feel that I may have underset it, that's why I tried to push in as hard as I can, but to my surprise, it is not over-set. Am I doing something wrong?
I feel that my hook is not in full contact with the pin

I have tried light tension (on wrench) and medium and high tension, you name it

[fgarci03]

If it's overset, the key pin should stay up because it will be trapped between the plug and housing.
Don't you feel a faint click when you lift it?

Are you able to disassemble the lock and do "DB's Lockpicking Exercise"? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10677
That really boosted my skills when I started!

[Hugokhf]

If it's overset, the key pin should stay up because it will be trapped between the plug and housing.
Don't you feel a faint click when you lift it?

Are you able to disassemble the lock and do "DB's Lockpicking Exercise"? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10677
That really boosted my skills when I started!

I couldn't disassemble the lock, the ring is too tight, tried many ways but can't lose the ring.
anyway, I think I found my problem:
''To straight-lift, simply position the pick tip under the center of the tip of the pin you wish to lift; then lift the pick up while keeping it horizontal.''
this is from an article here: http://theamazingking.com/lock-spp.php

anyway, I find that I always cannot 'position the pick under the center of the tip of the pin'
the ward is to the right
do you understand what I am saying?
the part where you put the hook in is not under the center of the pin, but to the left.

any advice on that?

[fgarci03]

Well, weird warding always are a pain. Angle your pick to be able to get past it.

This isn't great quality, but check how I angle the pick to manage to go through this weird warding:


here's an excerpt form the same page:

Keyway warding can present a challenge while lifting pins (especially in very paracentric keyways). You can either try to snake the pick through the warding as you lift, or you can try to lever it off a ward.

One advice I can give you is to hold your hand against something to make it steady. Some people don't need that, but I do:


See how he holds his finger against the lock? I do that too to be able to control my movement there. Maybe it'll help...

[Hugokhf]

cheers.
thank you very much

I will try again after reading the 'detail overkill' pdf

[Hugokhf]

I experienced another problem today.
It seems like when I lift the pin individually, sometimes the 'non-binding' pin will also click?
Is that due to the tension I exert?

I know it is non binding as I tried many different pins at my first pick

ps it is a 'Zone' Euro cylinder. 'not sure which model thouugh'

[fgarci03]

Was that after you set that pin? Maybe when you lift the pin, the one that clicks is one that you have already set, and falls down to place again?

I'm not sure I understood what you meant though, so I could be wrong

[Hugokhf]

Was that after you set that pin? Maybe when you lift the pin, the one that clicks is one that you have already set, and falls down to place again?

I'm not sure I understood what you meant though, so I could be wrong

no, it is the first pin I push down, so for example, I push down the first pin (pin no.1), till it is over-set.
if it is not the binding pin, then it shouldn't 'over-set' right?
now my 2nd try, I push the last pin first (as in pin no.4, a 4pin euro cylinder), without interferring with the first pin, then the pin also set (have a click)

so that's the problem, is my tension to strong which makes more than the binding pin set?

[GWiens2001]

If the #4 pin was meant to be the first one set,or if it is being overset, it can cause other pins to drop.

After you 'set' the #4 pin, do any of the other pins set, or are they all able to be moved freely up and down? If the other pins all move freely and do not bind, then either that fourth pin is over set, or it is not set enough. The more likely thing is for it to be over set.

Have you read 'Lockpicking Overkill', by our member Solomon? It is short, easy to understand, and also explains the importance of cursing while picking. It will help you a lot if you read it all, especially if you have a lock and pick set there so you can follow along.

Gordon

[Hugokhf]

If the #4 pin was meant to be the first one set,or if it is being overset, it can cause other pins to drop.

After you 'set' the #4 pin, do any of the other pins set, or are they all able to be moved freely up and down? If the other pins all move freely and do not bind, then either that fourth pin is over set, or it is not set enough. The more likely thing is for it to be over set.

Have you read 'Lockpicking Overkill', by our member Solomon? It is short, easy to understand, and also explains the importance of cursing while picking. It will help you a lot if you read it all, especially if you have a lock and pick set there so you can follow along.

Gordon

Cheers for the reply.
I have read the detail overkill last night

am I definitely feelingit wrong, if I get 2 over-set pins at the same time then?
I can see the first pin being over-set, then I go try to push the pin4, and over set it, then I see pin 1 springing up.