newbie ~ tastes of success ~ now @ roadblock (schlage)

[someguy01]

Ive been lurking in the forums for a while and absorbing as much as possible... I bought a small pick set (16 some picks;all the basics
http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?Page ... &ProdID=30).
16 Piece Pick Set MDPK
16 Piece Pick Set made of spring steel with rivited, reenforced handles

I then made a run to my local homedepot and picked up some low end locks for learing. A few of everything; ie

Mailbox lock
Prime Line Products offset Cam 5-Pin Tumbler Mailbox Lock
Model 884182 Internet/Catalog # 884182 $3.99 EA

A few misc 4 pin 'master lock'
Master Lock #3 Universal Pinned Steel Laminated Padlock
Internet/Catalog # 877912 $6.99 EA

Master Lock 1-3/16 In. Solid Brass Padlock Model 130DKA
Internet/Catalog # 877550 $5.27 EA

and some "Mag" aka "magnum" 5 pin deadbolt

I also got a couple of those locks with the disks in them.. that are in office desks and filing cabinets...

Afer a week or so of playing at about 20 mins a day I could open them all in a matter of 1 min for the hardest ones. No big deal eh? So then I got brave/stupid and thougth hey this is easy and went back to homedepot. I picked up a double keyed Schlage "maximum security" "ansi #2 graded" deadbolt with "pick resistent pins"... "yea right" i thought foolishly....

http://consumer.schlage.com/main/prodcat/prodcat.htm
http://consumer.schlage.com/main/prodca ... xsecDB.pdf

So... I got the thing home and its about to make me nuts.
-The keyway is ridiculous due to bad angles and my picks get all snaged and bound up.
-The springs on the pins seem excessively stiff
-The pins have a small point on the tips that make them hard to feel

All in all, its just frustrating. I know I just need to hang in there but I was hoping there was some nice tip Im missing out on that someone could enlighten me to. Or perhaps I am in way over my head and selected some lock thats too advanced?

I took it partly apart (but I dont have a follower plug so only pulled it out a few pins worth) and I didnt notice any spool / mushroom pins. It kind of has me wondering about the marketing hype of "pick resisten pins". maybe im missing something there... By the way.. one thing I did think was odd was the plug had strange holes bored about 20 degrees off to one side from the pin holes. they dont go all the way thru to the keyway (maybe 1/2 way) and seem to serve no purpose. whats that all about? some security feature?

Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated. Please be gentle as this is my first post.

Many thanks in advance

[someguy01]

opps ... a fixed the link to the pick set
http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?Page ... &ProdID=30

[bushd]

This brand of lock is atleast in my mind known for stiff springs.

You mention the pins being more pointed then the others and that can make it hard to pick and will be attributed to their better machining standards then your average Master lock.

The security pins could be in #1 or #5, it doesn't particularly matter because they're still a security pin and therefor more pick resistant. Your top pins could also be serrated but I doubt it.

The keyway is designed so that you can't easily insert a pick. You will find that this become increasingly difficult once you reach higher security locks.

I'd suggest trying out Kwikset and Weiser locks before a Schlage. If anything buy one of the packages offered here and pin them yourself for practice.

[bushd]

With no edit button something I forgot to mention about the springs is that they become worn over time and give more or loose their springiness (I guess that is the right word). This will always be the case when a new lock is purchased compared to an older lock. Use of the lock(s) can also play a factor in this too.

[TOWCH]

Sounds like the Kwikset "UltraMax Security" ANSI Grade 1 lock I have on my front door. It has to be picked at an angle due to a semi restricted keyway, 6 pins, 3 of which are spools, and stiff springs. Hardest Kwikset I've ever stuck a pick into. I've only been able to get it twice and took me about 5-10 minutes both times.

[someguy01]

hum. perhaps ill get a follower plug so i can take it apart appropriately and maybe pull a few pins temporarily... practice on 2-3 pins then start adding them back in.

thanks bushd for the other lock suggestions... maybe ill get mid grade Kwikset

TOWCH, you may be right... the marketing hype says "ansi grade 2" with "grade 1 features", whatever that means. perhaps it means impossible keyway

[someguy01]

so I took out pins 4 & 5.. sure enough one had a top spool pin. after sticking it back together (minus 4&5) i was able to pick it in about a minute and can consistently do so without too much trouble.. i still dont have a follow plug so i didnt take it all the way apart, but from picking pin 2 does seem strange, perhaps it has a spool pin as well? not sure... regardless, i just thought id post on my status. thanks for those that commented... i guess ill start adding back pins and go from there. back to picking... this is addicting.

thanks all.

[logosys]

This is probably my favorite kind of lock to pick, I have 5 of them....

Yes, they generally have 1-3 spool pins. Make sure you use light-medium tension, HEAVY pick pressure. It is a Grade 2 security lock, although my research tells me the only thing keeping it from Grade 1 is the drill resistance. The tolerances on them meet the requirements for a Grade 1 lock, and yes, the keyway is a pain in ass. I've found that a combination of hook and small half diamond works excessively well. Hope this helps, PM me if you have any other questions about these...

[someguy01]

logosys; glad to hear that someone else has toyed with these and agrees the keyway is a challenge. i would have to agree with you on these being a favorite, its alreaydy becomming my favorite also. your selection of half hook and small half diamond are what seem to work best for me too.

thanks for your comments

[someguy01]

logosys, quick question... you mention you thought these schlage locks were very similar to ANSI grade 1 (except drilling preventative measures)

how familiar are you witn the ANSI standards around locks? i didnt notice anything better than ansi 1 or 2 at the local home store here, but then they might not have a great selection, and i didnt notice them selling many/any commercial grade things, that i would imagine would be more robust.

do commercial applications follow typical ansi 1 standards similar to this schlage lock? around where i am most buildings (offices, schools, etc etc) have "best" locks that use the modular core system ie..
http://www.bestaccess.com/ICcore.htm

id like to get my hands on one of those sometime after i master this schlage and was curious how the best locks compare to these and how the best locks mentioned above typically rate comparatively on the ansi standards..

thanks in advance

[logosys]

logosys, quick question... you mention you thought these schlage locks were very similar to ANSI grade 1 (except drilling preventative measures)

how familiar are you witn the ANSI standards around locks?

Very

i didnt notice anything better than ansi 1 or 2 at the local home store here,

Ansi Standards basically lay out what kind of torture test a lock must endure. There are 3 basic groups of locks, 1, 2 and 3 - 1 being the best, 3 being the worst. There are then 3 sections of "High Security" locks, 1, 2, and 3 - 1 being the best. For information about the tests they must endure, you can check out a summary of UL437 at http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=4012 If you are looking to secure something, look to at least a Grade 2 lock.

but then they might not have a great selection, and i didnt notice them selling many/any commercial grade things, that i would imagine would be more robust.

do commercial applications follow typical ansi 1 standards similar to this schlage lock?

In the lock manufacturing world, commercial and residential is a fuzzy line. There are High Security Grade locks for businesses, and there are businesses that lock their doors with plastic cored Weisers...

Many commercial places have IC's because of the ease of key changing. You likely won't find these at a Home Depot, because they are a bit more intricate. If you are going to secure your business, I would reccommend getting a Yale Grade 1 lock at least. If there are lots of doors to be locked, go talk to a locksmith about an SFIC, he'll fill you in on the details.

around where i am most buildings (offices, schools, etc etc) have "best" locks that use the modular core system ie..
http://www.bestaccess.com/ICcore.htm

IF you're going to get an IC system, BEST is the.... well.... best....

id like to get my hands on one of those sometime after i master this schlage and was curious how the best locks compare to these and how the best locks mentioned above typically rate comparatively on the ansi standards..

Picking SFIC's is a whole different ballpark than picking a standard cylinder. You see, SFIC's have 2 shearlines, as opposed to the standard 1. You can use a specialized IC tension tool (http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=318) or get a VERY fine touch to determine which line your setting the pins on.

thanks in advance[/quote][/b]

[someguy01]

wow.. all great info, thanks logo! fyi, not really looking to secure a business, im just someguy guy whos interested in locks and a new hobby. i noticed best locks around in commercial applications and wondered how they compare. sound quite a bit diffrent and challenging...

thanks again