Need to install a hidden deadbolt, looking for tips

[Squelchtone]

Hey gang,

A customer wants me to install a hidden deadbolt on a back door to his business. This door goes into the alley where the dumpster is. There are 2 doors to enter and exit the store already, so fire/life safety is not a huge concern. The door is not a real metal door, more like a wood core with metal cladding, and exposed wood on the edges, and I need to fit an USA style deadbolt but have no indicator outside the door that there is a deadbolt, so my question is how do I do this as most USA style deadbolts require 2 screws to sandwich the lock together from both sides.

I found a fireman website with photos of such a lock, and I'm wondering how they may have installed and secured it so it operates well and doesn't flop around inside the door. http://ironsandladders.com/tag/hidden-deadbolt/

Because of the ASSA cylinders already installed at this building, I need to use a LORI deadbolt and screw in a mortise cylinder on the inside, I have no use for the thumb turn.

I've thought of maybe using a dummy cylinder outside or a blank plate but this tells bad guys where to Sawzall the deadbolt.

No rush on this project, I have 2 weeks, just looking for good ideas. also need to source some new hinges that have the security pin in them so they interlock, or hinges where you cannot remove the hinge pin. Hinges are on the outside and accessible to the bad guys.

I would prefer not to use a Segal style Jimmy Proof surface mount lock mechanism.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[FrenchKey]

Hello Squelchtone,

How are you ?

Maybe a solution (my french mind is working using french products...), using a lock like this :
http://www.trenois.com/images_produits/HDEF/chu0267.jpg

and a cylinder like this :
http://www.trenois.com/images_produits/HDEF/dis038.jpg

it's clean, somehow beautiful and 100% hidden from outside

what do you think ?

[keysman]

Most any lock manufacturer makes a ½ deadbolt for hotel connecting room doors, The bolt is accessible only from your room ( inside). No outside hole necessary.

http://www.doorknobdiscountcenter.com/M ... =WES-nonTC

http://www.doorknobdiscountcenter.com/M ... e=BW-8TDBP

[Evan]

Hey gang,

A customer wants me to install a hidden deadbolt on a back door to his business. This door goes into the alley where the dumpster is. There are 2 doors to enter and exit the store already, so fire/life safety is not a huge concern. The door is not a real metal door, more like a wood core with metal cladding, and exposed wood on the edges, and I need to fit an USA style deadbolt but have no indicator outside the door that there is a deadbolt, so my question is how do I do this as most USA style deadbolts require 2 screws to sandwich the lock together from both sides.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

What type of lock is presently installed on the door in question...

Commercial premises will mean finding a rated lock for the door, even if it is an auxiliary, as you would need to be able to maintain the fire rating of the wall if the door is only closed by that additional lock for whatever reason...

I would go with one of these babies: http://www.securitech.com/trident-locks/

I have seen them installed and they do legitimately take like 2 hours to install...

You can order additional dead lugs for the hinge side of the door beyond the one that comes with the kit...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

The door currently has 2 of these on it:




I like that Trident lock, bet it costs a pretty penny.

I have also offered the customer the option of a Detex push bar alarm with rim cylinder: https://buydoorhardwarenow.com/detex_ec ... 4AodMh0AhA

[Evan]

If you have a real steel door and you through bolt a normal single point alarmed exit device that could work, but this sounds like the guy wants to have the door so a key is required to exit through it, in commercial premises this means having some sort of exit device, those two surface mounted flush bolts definitely were not installed during the fire inspection for that store...

Whichever solution you choose, I would still go with at least two of the dead lug bolts on the hinge side, as unless it is a continuous security hinge that is typically a vulnerable point...

~~ Evan

[2octops]

If the customer wants a keyed lock on the inside of the door on their keyway, why not just use a padlock with the correct cylinder dropped through the slide bolt that is already on the door?

[Squelchtone]

If the customer wants a keyed lock on the inside of the door on their keyway, why not just use a padlock with the correct cylinder dropped through the slide bolt that is already on the door?

The slide bolt was installed upside down, so the hole is only available for a padlock if the slide bolt is in the open position... yeah, I scratched my head on that one as well. I also don't have ASSA Twin padlock cores handy to match his current keyway, but I do have some spare RIMO cylinders like the ones in his front doors, which is why I'm leaning to Detex or LORI solution.

And like Evan suggested, I will be adding a couple slide bolts to the hinge side as well, in case someone cuts off the hinges on the outside.


So back to my original question, if I have to install a North American style tubular deadbolt but not have it be shown on the outside of the door, and I want a keyed cylinder on the inside, and not a thumb turn like those hotel locks keysman posted, would a LORI mortise deadbolt work or does it require the 2 long screws to pass through the entire lock to keep it tightly sandwiched or will it work just to have the cylinder and collar screwed into the lock assembly inside the door?

Thanks everyone, good ideas so far, but unfortunately I'm limited to using a deadbolt, or an alarmed Detex crash bar with keyed cylinder.
Squelchtone

[MrWizard]

Yes I would use a Detex they have a couple that doesn't go all the way across the door that would work and be compliant.

http://www.detex.com/Product.aspx?id=2148

[2octops]

A Lori will just flop around if it does not have the cylinder screwed in on the other side.

Flip the existing slide bolt over so it's installed correctly?

Install a Lori with a dummy on the outside and a latch guard on the outside if this is an outswing door?

If you put 2 of those slide bolts on the hinge side and the frame is grouted in, you don't hardly need anything on the latch side since it will stop the door from pivoting.

Put a slide bolt at the top going into the header and one at the floor going into the threshold. That should confuse anybody from the outside.

[Squelchtone]

Awesome tips man, thanks everyone!

Squelchtone

[MacGyver101]

And like Evan suggested, I will be adding a couple slide bolts to the hinge side as well, in case someone cuts off the hinges on the outside.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Evan was suggesting something like these hinge bolts, rather than a slide bolt on the hinge side. (It'll be just as effective, but without the interference to opening the door.)

[Squelchtone]

And like Evan suggested, I will be adding a couple slide bolts to the hinge side as well, in case someone cuts off the hinges on the outside.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Evan was suggesting something like these hinge bolts, rather than a slide bolt on the hinge side. (It'll be just as effective, but without the interference to opening the door.)

Ah, I had missed that, and looked back at his post and your link. I like it and I think 3 or 4 of those on the hinge side will do wonders.

You all rock, thanks again!
Squelchtone

[Evan]

And like Evan suggested, I will be adding a couple slide bolts to the hinge side as well, in case someone cuts off the hinges on the outside.

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think Evan was suggesting something like these hinge bolts, rather than a slide bolt on the hinge side. (It'll be just as effective, but without the interference to opening the door.)

Yes, you were correct in what I meant -- hinge bolts...

They work like the dead lugs on a safe, if you disable the hinges on a door so equipped it won't be able to open or come out of its frame until you remove those little buggers too... The ones that I saw with the Trident lock are through bolted mounted to the door and are the best ones I have seen... The locks I was able to see in use up close had three of the hinge pin devices directly opposite the active boltworks on the lock side of the door so they were six point locking...

I have seen a few of those Trident exit devices installed, the only two annoying things about them are:

The method to disable the alarm to exit is key retaining which while useful in that you won't ever be able to leave it an unarmed condition, if you need to go far away from the door to dispose of trash or whatever your keys are left hanging from the inside of the door where someone could take THEM...

Also, it has two states, open (with key no alarm -- no key with alarm) or locked... You can trick it into throwing its bolts so you can keep the door propped open or have to prop open the door for re-entry...

It is secure but like I said has its annoyances... If your destination outside the door is directly adjacent to the door where you can still supervise it, then it is the absolute best exit device rated solution that I have seen...

~~ Evan

[Raymond]

You mentioned using a Lori deadbolt. Someone mentioned that it would flop around too much - yes it would. But the flopping might be stopped.

Install the bolt and housing normally but without drilling completely through the outer skin of the door.
Get a piece of flat steel larger than the hole the Lori case was installed through.
Cut a hole just the exact diameter of the mortise cylinder.
Install the mortise cylinder through the hole in the flat plate and secure it with a screw on cylinder nut. Some inside/outside spacers will probably be required.
Screw the plate and cylinder into the Lori case.
Attach the plate to the door surface with screws. (one-ways or tamper resistant)
Tighten the set screw to prevent any cylinder turning.

The cylinder locked in place and screwed to the door will stabilize the Lori bolt and case.
Good luck.