Super Glue in Padlocks

[Tyler J. Thomas]

But for a working locksmith on the hustle, the WORKING solution is removing and replacing the lock in question, writing up the bill, and moving on to the next service call.

Not always. I could clean the lock thoroughly in the half-hour that's included in our service call.

[northcave]

Surely it would be more productive for British Rail to invest in some sort of lock protector? I believe a Dutch company developed one some years ago. Then again, this is British Rail we are talking about...

This is the main problem. Try and think of some way to create a lock protector that doesn't mean locking up the lock which clearly presents the same issue? As you say, if there was a way to protect the lock then it would have been done by now. We're simply trying to come up with a better in-situ solution than calling out a person to lop the lock off.

If there is no better way to do it then so be it but its worth asking.

Does anyone have any thoughts on filling a lock mechanism with something like grease or Vaseline so that any glue simply couldn't displace the thicker substance already in there?

[Squelchtone]

Surely it would be more productive for British Rail to invest in some sort of lock protector? I believe a Dutch company developed one some years ago. Then again, this is British Rail we are talking about...

This is the main problem. Try and think of some way to create a lock protector that doesn't mean locking up the lock which clearly presents the same issue? As you say, if there was a way to protect the lock then it would have been done by now. We're simply trying to come up with a better in-situ solution than calling out a person to lop the lock off.

If there is no better way to do it then so be it but its worth asking.

Does anyone have any thoughts on filling a lock mechanism with something like grease or Vaseline so that any glue simply couldn't displace the thicker substance already in there?

Isn't the Dutch overlock you guys are eluding to the Drumm Geminy pin-in-pin which is actually pretty glue resistant as there are no holes for glue to go into? If you were to pour it on the lock, one could simply crack the superglue and chip it off the relitively flat surface, then use the Drumm Geminy key as if nothing had happened to the lock. The "keyhole" of this lock also does not look like a traditional keyhole, so people who are going around with superglue may not say, oh, i'm going to pour glue on "that thing" unless they know what it's purpose is.

Here's a nice paper by Han Fey on this exact lock: http://toool.nl/images/a/a6/Drumm-geminy.pdf

Cheers,
Squelchtone

[EmCee]

Honestly, there's no better way to do it. Filling the thing with grease would just give you a non-working lock and every key that went into it would come out with a coating of grease (lovely to put into your pocket).

I'm really not having a pop at you, but I'm still staggered that the tech department of a padlock supplier and, more amazingly still, the tech guys at ABUS, don't have intimate knowledge of how the locks work and therefore a full understanding of how they will be affected if filled with Superglue.

Your first post requested an article about it, but all the article would do is to confirm, as your last post says, that the way it is currently done is the best way to do it.

If a pin tumbler cylinder (Yale) lock in a door is filled with Superglue, a locksmith might choose to use a butane pen torch to try and soften the glue enough so that the key will turn, or use a destructive or bypass method to gain entry, depending on the lock and the door. Either way, once the door is open the cylinder will be removed and replaced.

If it's a padlock that is filled with Superglue, again one option would be to heat the glue but in most cases the quickest way would be to cut it. And again, either way, the lock would then be replaced with a new one.

In both cases, the prime motivation would be to open the lock as quickly as possible - I'm talking about locksmithing, not locksport where the motivations and considerations about time and cost are different.

From a commercial point of view, if the lock was a very expensive one, then the cost in time and money (locksmith fees) for cleaning the lock might be worthwhile economically, on paper at least. Confederate could open and clean the lock within half an hour. I certainly couldn't do that. And even if the locksmith did open the lock, strip it completely, soak all the parts in thinner or release agent, clean it, dry it, lubricate it and reassemble it...what then? I can't see a locksmith giving any guarantee on that lock - it would be all but impossible to know that every trace of glue had been removed from pins, springs, pin chambers etc etc.

The best way to deal with it? Hire 24hr security patrols, and enough of them to cover all the locks at risk, in order to stop the glue getting in there in the first place. Of course, that would not be economically viable any more than repairing the lock is viable in the vast majority of cases.

I'm a trained journalist and PR consultant. If you want an article I'd be happy to write it. I don't need a byline or link - in fact you could have the article credited to LP101 if the site owners agreed with the copy and use of the name. But all that article would say is 'Yes, it's a pain when the Superglue Squad hits. Yes, it costs money to deal with it. Yes, we sympathise. No, there's no realistic economic alternative to doing what you are already doing - replacing the padlock, cursing the vandals and hoping it won't happen too often.'

Cheers...

[EmCee]

Isn't the Dutch overlock you guys are eluding to the Drumm Geminy pin-in-pin which is actually pretty glue resistant as there are no holes for glue to go into?

I was going to mention that, but I don't think there is a 'padlock' version of it, and in addition it's pretty expensive so any decision on a lock protector would depend on how frequent this problem is (in reality rather than anecdotally) and how much is being spent on new padlocks.

The "keyhole" of this lock also does not look like a traditional keyhole, so people who are going around with superglue may not say, oh, i'm going to pour glue on "that thing" unless they know what it's purpose is.

I also wondered whether a digital (or even electronic/fob operated) lock would be useful - as you say, because it does not have a keyhole that's begging to be filled with Superglue. But again, that might work with 'in-door' locks but not with padlocks.

Cheers...

[HirosStorageUnit]

the worst one that has even screwed me up ws not super glue, but chewing gum.

had to break those lock off.

[darkonc]

I had a lock that was full of crazy glue .. After I took it off of the door, it took me a could of days to get around to buying acetone, and Xylene. I ended up dunking the lock in acetone, and leaving it for a couple of weeks (removing it to let the acetone and glue drain, and then refreshing the acetone every couple of days).. So far the lock seems to work OK (it's still wet, so I'm not sure it will be OK after a couple more days).

For padlocks, the equivalent would be to get some sort of container that you can soak the lock in-situ , until the glue is soft enough to allow the key in (this could be DAYS). picking out the softened glue regularly would help.

As pretty much everybody else mentioned -- if you need immediate access to whatever the lock is protecting, then a bolt cutter is probably your best bet.

[Luissen]

Here's a nice paper by Han Fey on this exact lock: http://toool.nl/images/a/a6/Drumm-geminy.pdf

That's a pretty cool looking lock.

I would have never though of something as intricate and clever as that, I'll probably read the rest of that paper on the bus ride home

[dll932]

The best thing to do of course is prevent the locks from getting glued up. What I do is squirt copious amounts of WD40 or Tri-Flow in the cylinder...on a regular basis, say once a month. While this won't guarantee "glueproofness," it makes it harder to freeze up with glue and easier to unstick if somebody tries. It has the added benefit of prevent ice freeze-up in winter. Cheap & cheerful.

[GWiens2001]

The advantage to lube as mentioned above is it removes moisture from the lock. Super glue requires water (moisture) to set.

The major disadvantage to over lubing a lock is gunk and sludge causing lock failure.

Gordon

[dll932]

The advantage to lube as mentioned above is it removes moisture from the lock. Super glue requires water (moisture) to set.

The major disadvantage to over lubing a lock is gunk and sludge causing lock failure.

Gordon

I've been doing this for at least 30 years and Northeastern Ohio has a lousy climate-very changeable. Don't forget, everytime you spray it again, you flush it out. I spray til the lube starts to run out and then wipe off the excess. Helps prevent rust, too.

[GWiens2001]

There are regional differences in climate which can cause issues in some areas, and not in others.

I live in the desert, where WD-40 can partially evaporate, and dust/debris blown by the wind can build up. Rust is not an issue at in my area, but clearly would be in other regions.

Glad your way works for you, and in your area. Out here, you may or may not maintain your views, depending on your experience.

Most people don't lube their locks - ever, let alone every month as you are able to do. Any lockie will say that a maintained lock will last longer, and clearly you do maintain your locks. Kudos to you for doing so.

Gordon

[dll932]

There are regional differences in climate which can cause issues in some areas, and not in others.

I live in the desert, where WD-40 can partially evaporate, and dust/debris blown by the wind can build up. Rust is not an issue at in my area, but clearly would be in other regions.

Glad your way works for you, and in your area. Out here, you may or may not maintain your views, depending on your experience.

Most people don't lube their locks - ever, let alone every month as you are able to do. Any lockie will say that a maintained lock will last longer, and clearly you do maintain your locks. Kudos to you for doing so.

Gordon

I take your point. In the case of glued locks I have applied heat from a pocket torch and kept pushing a blank in and out. Then I'd pull as much stuff out with a key extractor as I could. I'm thinking powdered teflon, like Poxylube might help as a preventative measure.

[GWiens2001]

That does sound like a good solution. If I had some, I'd sacrifice a cylinder or two for testing.
Gordon

[C locked]

This happens to the schools in our area every holidays. Unfortunately the only workable solution is to soak the lock in acetone. Till the glue in gel. Then remove as much as can be with a pick. Till the key turns. And then strip the padlock to parts soak and clean and then rebuild. Usually quicker to replace. ....but if you need the parts. ...and the usual way to "protect" is to have a properly cleaned and well lubricated lock. So the glue doesn't have a chance to bind on the surfaces of the lock. Just on the lube.