Lockpick posession in Arizona

[FrozenDice]

I've seen the thread viewtopic.php?t=2850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
and read the burgulary code, but I've heard other things that conflict with it. I've heard that it's illegal to posess lockpicks unelss you are a practicing locksmith and it is your fulltime job, and you must be employed by a locksmith company. We are looking to start a competitive lockpicking club down in AZ, but want to know the legalitys of it first, I'm thinking if this is all the legislation on it then all we would need to do is have our members sign stuff to prove they have no intent to burgle.

Does anyone know where I could get free or low cost professional legal advice?

[Badmonkey005]

I dunno if anyone here is from arizona. Your best bet would be to ask around your city... I wouldn't exactly suggest the yellow pages but as a last resort...

And some may not even charge if your question can be answerd over the phone.

[iv81]

Did a quick search on google.

http://www.digitaltrash.org/defcon/lockpick_laws.html

Arizona
13-1505. Possession of burglary tools; classification

A. A person commits possession of burglary tools by possessing any
explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or commonly used
for committing any form of burglary as defined in sections 13-1506,
13-1507 and 13-1508 and intending to use or permit the use of such an
item in the commission of a burglary.

B. Possession of burglary tools is a class 6 felony.
More at http://www.azleg.state.az.us/

[Omikron]

Did a quick search on google.

http://www.digitaltrash.org/defcon/lockpick_laws.html

Arizona
13-1505. Possession of burglary tools; classification

A. A person commits possession of burglary tools by possessing any
explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or commonly used
for committing any form of burglary as defined in sections 13-1506,
13-1507 and 13-1508 and intending to use or permit the use of such an
item in the commission of a burglary.

B. Possession of burglary tools is a class 6 felony.
More at http://www.azleg.state.az.us/

Legal Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, blah, blah, blah, this isn't professional advice, etc.

Looks like part A of the statute defines what is considered "Possession of Burglary Tools". It seems you have to possess them, AND have intent to use them for "bad things" in order to be in "Possession of Burglary Tools". Much like a pair of scissors by themselves are fine, but if you stab someone in the chest with them, they become a weapon.

Part B simply says if you meet the requirements outlined in A, then you're f%cked.

[FrozenDice]

Is this a felony everywhere? I'm kinda glad that the law would come down hard on people that actually broke it, but that kinda makes me afraid of if somethign happens and they don't believe I wasn't doing anything bad.

[Omikron]

Is this a felony everywhere? I'm kinda glad that the law would come down hard on people that actually broke it, but that kinda makes me afraid of if somethign happens and they don't believe I wasn't doing anything bad.

They have to prove, in court, that you had the intent to do harm. If you're in a situation where this intent might be easy to prove, then you very well shouldn't have any grey-market items on your person. Unfortunately, that's just the way things are.

[digital_blue]

I have always subscribed to the following thinking when it comes to possession of pick tools.

IF you live in an area where laws are stated as the above example, and IF you are above the age of majority, and IF you do not find yourself in questionable situations or in the company of people of questionable character, you will likely never have a problem with the law.

I carry picks at all times in my vehicle. I don't have a tendency to be skulking around in places I shouldn't be. I don't carry any other items that would be get me in legal trouble (drugs, weapons, etc.). So, it is highly unlikely that I would ever have a problem with carrying picks. I suspect that if I ever had my vehicle searched and the picks were discovered one of the two would happen:

1) The officer would ask me several questions and determine that I posed no threat and was not in violation of any laws and send me on my merry way.
2) The picks would be confiscated for further consideration and I would have to pick them up at the local police station once they figured out that I was not actually in violation of any laws.

I do recognize that it is possible that an overzealous police officer could decide to lay charges, but I find this highly unlikely and, quite frankly, a risk I'm willing to entertain.

As always, just my thoughts.

db

[Edmiester]

http://toool.us/laws.html
It is stated that it is only illegal if you are attempting or commiting a burglary, and are fount to be with tools. I live in AZ and I have picks, snap-gun, slim-jims, and jigglers as well. I was a Maintenance Technician for an Apartment community. Several actually.

[daniel22747]

I do recognize that it is possible that an overzealous police officer could decide to lay charges, but I find this highly unlikely and, quite frankly, a risk I'm willing to entertain.


db

This is however a good reason to always say no to searches. If a police officer asks you if he can search your car or person at what apears to be a normal traffic stop something odd is going on. This shouldn't be happening and it suggest he is trying to find somthing to arrest you on. Maybe he just doesn't like the way you look or maybe you, or your car, just happen to realy fit the description of a suspect in the area they are looking for.

Whatever the case may be if a police officer is searching you, or your car, and finds lock picks it could be a problem.

Also not all cops know the law as well as they should! People do get arrested for things that are not really illegal cause they fall into a grey border line area of the law. Picks are a classic example of this. Cops rarely encounter them at all and the few times they have it has probably been on obvious burglars. Some cops may tend to think that any time pics are found on someone that is not a lock smith they are burglar tools. They may arrest first and ask questions later. The charges would probably get dropped but you would still have to go through an arrest.

[bitbuster]

About 8 years ago I was doing some locksmith work at a friends house.My son drove me there with his car and took me home after the job was done.I left some picks in the cup holder/console area but didn't realize it until a day later.Didn't give it a second thought.Two days later my son called and said he had been pulled over for speeding in Minnesota and the county mounty had confiscated the picks,stating they are considered burglary tools unless in the possession of a legitimate locksmith.Long story short,I made the drive from Wisconsin to Wabasha along with proper ID and business card and letterhead.The picks were then returned to me.I don't leave my picks in his car anymore.

[rob sikate]

The only states that it is illegal to own and possess lock picks, that were NOT used in a burglary, is Virginia, Ohio, Mississippi, Nevada, and possibly Tennessee. http://toool.us/laws.html