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Prison Cell Locks

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby Dogrocket » 13 Aug 2013 12:45

WOW. that's a lot bigger than I expected. That keyway looks roomy, other than those wards


That's what I was thinking - the bogota makes that thing look huge. Can you pick it with your fingers?
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby Squelchtone » 13 Aug 2013 13:17

Perhaps a photo next to a regular sized mortise cylinder will give better perspective as to the size of a mogul cylinder:

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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby fgarci03 » 13 Aug 2013 13:20

@Squelchtone, STOP RUBBING THAT LOCK ON MY FACE!

Now I won't stop untill I get one :roll: :mrgreen:


Is it too difficult to SPP?
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby Squelchtone » 13 Aug 2013 15:18

fgarci03 wrote:@Squelchtone, STOP RUBBING THAT LOCK ON MY FACE!

Now I won't stop untill I get one :roll: :mrgreen:


Is it too difficult to SPP?


Don't worry, I will soon be selling my entire collection, you will be able to buy one of them I'll give you first opportunity.

=)

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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby fgarci03 » 13 Aug 2013 20:12

You sir, are the MAN! :mrgreen:


I am, however, sad to know you will sell the collection... :roll:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby Evan » 13 Aug 2013 20:14

Squelchtone wrote:
fgarci03 wrote:@Squelchtone, STOP RUBBING THAT LOCK ON MY FACE!

Now I won't stop untill I get one :roll: :mrgreen:


Is it too difficult to SPP?


Don't worry, I will soon be selling my entire collection, you will be able to buy one of them I'll give you first opportunity.

=)

Squelchtone


:-O

How come ? If I had some of the locks you do, I would sell extra body parts like lungs and kidneys first...

~~ Evan
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Aug 2013 23:13

Me, too. Hey Evan, can I borrow a kidney to trade for that Folger? :lol:

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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby MrTornado » 13 Sep 2013 5:05

Why are prison locks so large? I assume it's higher security but how does an increase in size produce a more secure lock? Or are the larger locks fitted with more security features?

It just seems to me that a larger keyway would make manipulating the lock with makeshift prison tools a lot easier than having to work with a small keyhole.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby fgarci03 » 13 Sep 2013 5:52

MrTornado wrote:Why are prison locks so large? I assume it's higher security but how does an increase in size produce a more secure lock? Or are the larger locks fitted with more security features?

It just seems to me that a larger keyway would make manipulating the lock with makeshift prison tools a lot easier than having to work with a small keyhole.

Well, small locks can be picked with small tools. A lock like this can't be picked with paper clips, no matter how much you try. Bigger tools are also harder to conceal.

Also, small locks are constantly getting stuffed with toothpicks and stuff like that. This lock makes it easier to "clean it" without replacing the lock.

But, from what I know, the true reason is the durability of the lock. Being so big, it doesn't wear down so fast. Also, if an inmate can get his hands on the key, he can't hide it easily. The key is almost bigger than his hand.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby MrTornado » 13 Sep 2013 8:20

I suppose durability and ease of cleaning make sense. The argument about hiding tools doesn't seem to stand up when you consider that people can pick these locks with regular sized tools as far as I know and in prison people manage to hide shivs etc which are probably about the same size as a lockpick and tension wrench.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby fgarci03 » 13 Sep 2013 8:23

Well, it's not easy to pick with regular sized tools. It's possible, but not easy. Certainly for the average criminal.
But that's correct! The size wasn't thought be be a pick deterent. It's just a small added bonus. :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby MacGyver101 » 17 Sep 2013 10:47

GWiens2001 wrote:All the lever locks! Let's see them!

I think the OP has disappeared, but I finally had a couple of minutes to take some photos for Gordon. :) I didn't have time to set up a proper camera/lighting rig for these: apologies for the cellphone pictures.

Here's a size comparison of some of the keys next to a standard Schlage... these are large locks.

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First up is an old S&G lock, originally in service in Leavenworth. It has a fairly compact key, relative to the other locks. The levers are all double-sprung, and have some heavy serrations to trap against the bolt stump as an anti-picking measure.

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Next is an equally-old Yale lock, removed from service in the British Columbia Penitentiary when it closed in the 80's. Similar design to the Yale, but the anti-pick serrations are much less pronounced. This lock has a double-sided plug: it can be opened from either side (note the symmetric cuts on the key), and would have been used on an access door, rather than a cell.

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Next is a (relatively) more modern Folger Adam Model 82, taken out of service in Salem; this was a major restoration effort that I'd posted a thread about earlier... the lock was heavily rusted, painted and beat up when it finally came out of service. Unlike the other two locks, these levers have only a single spring: it's more economical to produce, but slightly less reliable for locks that saw heavy service.

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Finally, something a bit different: a much more modern Folger Adam. This lock is based on the Model 80 lock body, but uses a pin-tumbler mogul cylinder:

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Just to give some size comparison, these are huge cylinders:

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What's particularly interesting is that they've kept all of the internals of the lever version of the lock the same:

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To interface with the cylinder, they simply mill down the standard plug and cut a slot in the top:

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...and the slot interfaces with the strangest "tailpiece" I've ever seen in a production lock: a pair of screws are tapped into the rear of the mogul cylinder plug.

Image

Some of these are likely very familiar to folks, but hopefully there's something interesting/new there. :)
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby fgarci03 » 17 Sep 2013 19:45

Thanks for sharing these with us, common mortals :P

These really are beautiful locks!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby femurat » 18 Sep 2013 2:47

The "two screws in a slot" tailpiece looks a handyman solution to me. I can't believe the factory made that. I know that saving a cent for every produced lock makes a big amount of money for the factory, but heck, that was a beautiful lock and they turned it into a big but no longer special lock :cry:

Well, thanks for sharing MacGiver101 :)
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Re: Prison Cell Locks

Postby zorro » 5 Oct 2013 23:38

Sorry Squelchtone, I've been having some medical issues. The cylinder I was referring to is certainly not the Folger. Quiet frankly I cannot rememebr the name but do know they requre very large keys made of brass. I have heard of many locks being opened but never did hear whether anyone was able to pick one of those. Feom the pic you show us I do know it is not that one. If I find a pic on the NET I will make a copy & show it to u guys so u can see what I am talking about. Again, sorry for the delay reponse on the subject.

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