Question about stronger springs

[bjornnrojb]

Hello all, after a search of these and other forums I was unable to find information on stronger springs for top pins. The benefits I am aware of are that they make bumpkeys more difficult to use successfully, they make the regularly recommended usage of tubular picks not work, and they just make picking harder in general. I have begun offering my customers spool pins and serrated pins in their locks if they are concerned about bumpkeying, but would also like to offer stronger pins so that I can repin locks with varying spring tensions, as well as try picking locks myself with varying spring tension.
I asked my locksmith distributor if they had any stronger springs but they only had a lot of different sfic springs and the usual OEM springs, not springs specially made to be stronger. Does anybody know where to source these? My poor distributor is loosing hair from all the headscratching he is doing from my questions, you may save him from getting a bald spot! (Apparently nobody has ever purchased security pins for Schlage locks from him before)

[MrTornado]

they make the regularly recommended usage of tubular picks not work

From what I understand the "standard" tubular "picks" from southord etc actually work through an impressioning attack. Most of these tubular "picks" have a collar. If a tubular lock had all the springs replaced with super strong strings the impressioning attack would still work you would just have to tighten down the collar more.

Resistance to impressioning attacks come from using a mixture of springs within the same lock. This is implimented on the better tubular locks out there. I don't know if they produce stronger springs... I think they use a variety of springs made from different metals so some are probably weaker than the standard springs. This works because different strength springs influence the downwards force of a stack just as much (if not more) that the length of the key pin.

Edit: I believe the different spring strengths comes from the use of different metals

Using different springs doesn't, however, protect from the peterson pick which is actually SPP and not an impressioning attack.

I'm not sure if you meant a mixture of spring strengths in tubular locks but I thought it better to clarify just in case anyone finds this page through Google and gets confused.

[Raymond]

If you only need a few heavy springs look to your local tire dealer. The valve stems they regularly throw away have very nice stainless steel springs. They will give you all you can pick up. Cut the stem and take the spring off. Add a couple of ball bearings to the first two pins and you will hardly notice the heavier springs. Take care that an uncut blank will not crush any spring inside the bible due to too long top pins. Remember, heavier springs will create more wear on the key and pin points so balance the life of the rekey with the security created. Too much wear and they will have keys that do not operate consistently.

[dll932]

If you only need a few heavy springs look to your local tire dealer. The valve stems they regularly throw away have very nice stainless steel springs. They will give you all you can pick up. Cut the stem and take the spring off. Add a couple of ball bearings to the first two pins and you will hardly notice the heavier springs. Take care that an uncut blank will not crush any spring inside the bible due to too long top pins. Remember, heavier springs will create more wear on the key and pin points so balance the life of the rekey with the security created. Too much wear and they will have keys that do not operate consistently.

This would mean that lubing regularly is even more important, of course. To help forestall wear, you might use the balls that Corbin-Russwin makes instead of regular bottom pins:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48429
They're still available from them.

[Raymond]

Yes, those balls are intended for that use. Also, you can go to any reputable bearing supply house and order stainless ball bearings in appropriate sizes. Wire size #32 is equal to .116". 3mm is equal to .118". Depending on the exact size of your pin holes and the tolerances of that paticular lock you might could use either size.

When playing around with this concept and not really worried about staying exact on the manufacturer's pin length, I used a center drill to make an indention on the bottom of a top pin (or large master pin) where the ball bearing stays centered. Then, when inserting the key, the ball is less likely to push against the wall of the holes and instead rolls in the indention on the pin. This system is great to use where there is very heavy key usage as there is considerably less wear.

[C locked]

You don't necessarily need to use stronger springs. Just that a stronger pressure from the spring. If you use a balanced stack and have the space. You could place a small top pin on top of the spring to get the harder pressure. But beware. It might just crush the spring.

[zeke79]

Do some research and see if you can find out where maxis sourced their springs for the detent ball chamber. These fit standard pin chambers and are much much stronger than normal pin springs. I have a couple hundred of them probably but that doesnt solve a supply issue for someone who wants to use them frequently.

[bjornnrojb]

You are all so helpful and knowledgeable. I will try some ball bearings and valve stem springs, this sounds like an elegant solution.