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by xylac » 20 Aug 2013 22:10
A lot of the time when I'm having trouble picking a lock, I find myself subconsciously cranking up the tension over time. Given enough time, it gets to a point where the tension is too high, and I can't pick the lock. I want to practice to get rid of this habit, and I want to hear your ideas. One idea I had is whenever I think I set a pin, go through and feel all the pins in the lock to make sure only one is binding. Hopefully that will make me realize if I'm over tensioning. There are probably other exercises I could do too.
Thoughts? Have any of you run into this issue? How did you overcome the thought that more tension will open the lock faster?
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xylac
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by YouLuckyFox » 20 Aug 2013 22:27
I've noticed that if you have your finger way out on the tension wrench, it put a lot more torque on the plug. So I hold my tensioning finger really close to the lock to limit me from binding up the pins. Let me know if that helps, it works well for me!
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by bjornnrojb » 21 Aug 2013 0:03
It seems to me that if you have your grip on the tension wrench farther out it will quickly become obvious if your tension is too much because you have to push the tension wrench farther (assuming it is flexible and it bends). Also, the farther out you grip the tension wrench the more control you have over the amount of tension you are giving the lock. As for tricks to teach yourself lower tension, Mr. Miyagi once said that pain drives the lesson in. Perhaps if you affix a thumbtack or other sharp object on the end of your tension wrench you can mitigate overtensioning!
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by Ruff_Dog » 21 Aug 2013 16:53
Not to derail this thread or anything, but how do people apply too much tension? I just got a lock today and have been picking for a week or so, so I might not know as much as others do, but my finger just rests on the tension wrench and it opens when I set the pins. I don't understand how someone can apply too much tension? Could someone explain?
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by YouLuckyFox » 21 Aug 2013 22:14
bjornnrojb wrote:It seems to me that if you have your grip on the tension wrench farther out it will quickly become obvious if your tension is too much because you have to push the tension wrench farther (assuming it is flexible and it bends). Also, the farther out you grip the tension wrench the more control you have over the amount of tension you are giving the lock. As for tricks to teach yourself lower tension, Mr. Miyagi once said that pain drives the lesson in. Perhaps if you affix a thumbtack or other sharp object on the end of your tension wrench you can mitigate overtensioning!
Very valid point about control. I feel I was in error in neglecting to mention (as I have in other threads regarding this technique) that I feel this is a good beginning exercise but not something to use once sufficient experience has been gained-especially for the reason that this would not be an appropriate thing to do on a lock that had security pins or when trying to let down only one pin that had been overset. Bytheway, I've enjoyed reading a lot of your posts bjornnrojb, I like to see the experience you lend to this forum  !
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by xylac » 22 Aug 2013 5:11
I like the ideas posted so far, and I have had some luck with moving my force up the handle. At the very least, it's making me more aware of how much force I'm using, and the pins aren't locking up too fast. Ruff_Dog wrote:Not to derail this thread or anything, but how do people apply too much tension? I just got a lock today and have been picking for a week or so, so I might not know as much as others do, but my finger just rests on the tension wrench and it opens when I set the pins. I don't understand how someone can apply too much tension? Could someone explain?
When I started learning, I thought "tension" implied applying a noticeable force, so I formed some bad habits early on before actually getting serious. If I just rest my finger as you describe, I have the same luck, but the habit isn't there yet.
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xylac
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by YouLuckyFox » 22 Aug 2013 10:57
Another reason for overtension that I noticed when I picked lockpicking up again 2 years ago was lack of dexterous independence. When my picking hand had to push hard against a pin to get it to clear shear (usually because I had to much tension already) my tensioning hand would also push hard on the tensioner. So teaching my hands to do separate duties took a little work. I can say that learning this helped me with TIG welding where my left hand would be dabbing into a molten puddle, my right hand would have to move steadily along a line, and my foot had to shift inconsistently on a foot pedal.
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by Ruff_Dog » 22 Aug 2013 12:57
xylac wrote:Ruff_Dog wrote:Not to derail this thread or anything, but how do people apply too much tension? I just got a lock today and have been picking for a week or so, so I might not know as much as others do, but my finger just rests on the tension wrench and it opens when I set the pins. I don't understand how someone can apply too much tension? Could someone explain?
When I started learning, I thought "tension" implied applying a noticeable force, so I formed some bad habits early on before actually getting serious. If I just rest my finger as you describe, I have the same luck, but the habit isn't there yet.
Ah, alright. Thanks for clearing that up! I always hear people saying tension is a lot less than you think. So I would gently press, and then eventually, I just started resting my finger on there... even if I just started picking. I can feel it give slightly when it opens, but even them, I'm surprised when I do actually open it. It's like shooting a gun. You don't jerk on the trigger. You use a slow, steady squeeze. You should be surprised when it fires. I use the same kind of thing with picking. A light resting finger and then an occasional increase in pressure.
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by FreyGrimrod » 22 Aug 2013 13:58
One idea squelchtone introduced to me was the notion of practicing with a tension wrench with a quite flexible spring forming the middle of it.
Over tension and your tension wrench bends in half...
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by xylac » 24 Aug 2013 0:53
Ruff_Dog wrote:It's like shooting a gun. You don't jerk on the trigger. You use a slow, steady squeeze. You should be surprised when it fires. I use the same kind of thing with picking. A light resting finger and then an occasional increase in pressure.
I like the analogy, I've heard that before for shooting a gun, but I've never heard it applied to tensioning. FreyGrimrod wrote:One idea squelchtone introduced to me was the notion of practicing with a tension wrench with a quite flexible spring forming the middle of it.
Over tension and your tension wrench bends in half...
Is that the featherlight tension tool? I think I've heard of it before on these forums, but I wasn't able to find the right thread with a quick search.
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xylac
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by Ruff_Dog » 24 Aug 2013 1:19
xylac wrote:Ruff_Dog wrote:It's like shooting a gun. You don't jerk on the trigger. You use a slow, steady squeeze. You should be surprised when it fires. I use the same kind of thing with picking. A light resting finger and then an occasional increase in pressure.
I like the analogy, I've heard that before for shooting a gun, but I've never heard it applied to tensioning.
I literally applied it to your situation while I wrote it. Haha. Do you pick locks in hand or a vice? If in hand, are you right- or left-handed? If right-handed, try holding the lock in your left, and using your middle finger for tension. Put it close to the lock. That's how I do it. And then when I go to pick a lock that's in something or supported, I do the same thing. It helps because I barely apply tension that way unless I really need it.
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by xylac » 25 Aug 2013 11:51
Ruff_Dog wrote:I literally applied it to your situation while I wrote it. Haha. Do you pick locks in hand or a vice? If in hand, are you right- or left-handed? If right-handed, try holding the lock in your left, and using your middle finger for tension. Put it close to the lock. That's how I do it. And then when I go to pick a lock that's in something or supported, I do the same thing. It helps because I barely apply tension that way unless I really need it.
Generally I pick in a vise, although I'll sometimes pick in hand. Usually picking with the lock in hand feels more awkward to me, since both the lock and picks can move freely. That could be because I generally don't pick padlocks though. Do you use tension at the top or bottom of the keyway? I imagine that would make a difference for how you hold the lock and tension wrench.
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xylac
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by bjornnrojb » 9 Sep 2013 20:01
Just a few nights ago I was teaching some old friends how to pick locks in the bar around the corner and even got some stragglers to join in. People were getting it quickly but first they all had to use less tension. And even after they were using less I had to have them feel how much tension I was using, and they all said, "Oh, that is way less tension than I thought!" I finally helped this girl pick her first lock by telling her to pretend she was bending a thin twig. She got her first four pin lock. After her celebratory shot of fireball her abilities quickly degraded, and when she went to the bathroom I removed two pins to prevent drunk depression. Feedback in the form of results is important to learning so I started them all out with snake rakes to learn proper tension because then they could learn it that much faster. Then once they got a four pin Kwikset with a snake rake I put them on two pin spp and started graduating them up to five and six pin. It is remarkable what a few hours drinking in a dimly lit bar can accomplish!
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by Ruff_Dog » 21 Sep 2013 20:07
xylac wrote:Ruff_Dog wrote:I literally applied it to your situation while I wrote it. Haha. Do you pick locks in hand or a vice? If in hand, are you right- or left-handed? If right-handed, try holding the lock in your left, and using your middle finger for tension. Put it close to the lock. That's how I do it. And then when I go to pick a lock that's in something or supported, I do the same thing. It helps because I barely apply tension that way unless I really need it.
Generally I pick in a vise, although I'll sometimes pick in hand. Usually picking with the lock in hand feels more awkward to me, since both the lock and picks can move freely. That could be because I generally don't pick padlocks though. Do you use tension at the top or bottom of the keyway? I imagine that would make a difference for how you hold the lock and tension wrench.
Oh, wow. Sorry for the delay! I stopped checking here for a few days. I got sort of busy. I prefer picking in hand, I don't own a vice. I use my left hand for holding the lock and tensioning. I hold the lock in my left hand, with my thumb on the lower left part of it (it's a deadbolt) index finger on top (it's slightly to the right as the thing that protrudes from the back prohibits my finger from getting directly on top), and my ring and pinky fingers supporting the lower right corner. My left middle finger applies very light tension. And my tension is bottom of the keyway. I've also done top this way as well. It works, just the placement of the middle finger changes. I pick with the right hand using a hook, a half diamond, and a rake. I've also picked four pins with one being a security pin this way (not bragging, just saying it works for me). I also hold the picks like a pencil -- I use SouthOrd's. I'm able to feel everything going on this way and get audible feedback. TL;DR: I cradle the lock in my left hand with four fingers, applying tension with one left over. I pick with a pencil-like grip on the lock picks and I've done decently using this method. I'm sure others have used it before?
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Ruff_Dog
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by xylac » 28 Sep 2013 2:14
Ruff_Dog wrote:I prefer picking in hand, I don't own a vice. I use my left hand for holding the lock and tensioning. I hold the lock in my left hand, with my thumb on the lower left part of it (it's a deadbolt) index finger on top (it's slightly to the right as the thing that protrudes from the back prohibits my finger from getting directly on top), and my ring and pinky fingers supporting the lower right corner. My left middle finger applies very light tension. And my tension is bottom of the keyway. I've also done top this way as well. It works, just the placement of the middle finger changes.
Out of curiosity, what brand of deadbolt are you picking? I've had trouble picking deadbolts clockwise with bottom tension, since it seems to take up more room in the keyway.
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xylac
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