Single pin picking advice

[Truth_seeker]

Hello I am am a novice lock picker & have wins about single pin picking..i can rake plenty of locks successfully & have been successful at single pin picking a few times but only once or twice was I confident that I knew what was taking place in the lock the entire time. I understand the concept but for the most part am unsure what exactly is happening inside the lock, I understand how everything works mechanically but get jumbled up easily & lose track of what pins are set, as I am unsure of the pin placement in relation to my pick without being able to physically see what is happening, I set a pin sometimes & the previously set pin drops, or sometimes I'll be applying enough tension with my wrench to cause the pins to bind but they're too stiff & when it sets my pick ends up jumping & jostling all the pins creating chaos inside my lock, but then if I relaese tension even the slightest bit it seems like the pins won't set at all as if there is not enough tension...any help would b greatly appreciated, I'm sure I'll have more questions once I read some of your replies, I always seem to start off great when single pin picking then after successfully setting a pin or two I get confused..maybe three if I'm lucky..
Thank you...

[mseifert]

There are more than I could possibly count videos on YouTube about how to pick locks and what is going on inside..

Here a couple of guys you could follow..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI7Lx-73lU0

You can learn alot from watching this little series of videos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVSL0liiWoc

Also practice and imagination will help out .. Pick a lock over and over and over and did I mention pick the lock over and over again .. While you are picking the lock pay close attention to what you fee, hear, etc .. Picking is not just a mechanical operation .. It also involve your senses also .. Start by just running the pick in and counting the clicks, feel the feedback on the pick hear the sound .. If you can get your hands on a lock that you can disassemble take it apart.. See the parts learn the nomenclature... Then when you put it back together only put 1 pin in it .. get a feel for that .. Then 2 pins .. etc..

Hope this help .. and oh ya .. PRACTICE !!!

[Truth_seeker]

I appreciate the advice & would give the same to someone else. Thank you. As far as doing the same lock over & over Im glad you told me that because I usually pick a lock 3-5 times & move on to the next, & I'm totally with you on everything else, (though I am only a novice doing what he can with junk locks) I've taken apart more locks than I can count, totally gutted them then rebuilt them, mixed & matched the pins & other pieces & rekeyed them to random keys I had laying around just for fun & have to pick them open to fix them if the key wouldn't work correctly but I would just rake or bump them open not single pin pick them, so as far as your basic pin/tumbler lock goes I'm well acquainted, but thank you all the same. I don't feel like I'm oafishly trying to "bruit force" it open for lack of better words I'm well aware of the patience & finesse required along with the listening & feeling for feedback, (though obviously I'm not the greatest at applying it constantly enough) but maybe I should specify I'm seeing this problem mostly in only some locks, could this be a security pin issue? Maybe all the locks I've tried on have them, I couldn't say, I am not that well acquainted with them at all, I have minimal experience with spool pins but that's it. Thank you in advance I appreciate anyone who will take the time to help out.

[Truth_seeker]

Excelent videos by the way...thank you

[Truth_seeker]

Ok so I have been trying to take you're advice the past days & PRACTICE, PRACTICE on locks I've opened a million times raking, locks I know for a fact don't have any security pins & seem to still b running into the same problems over & over, the pins don't seem to bind as tightly with these locks but the same problem exists with these locks that I explained before so I know it's not a security pin issue, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, I've heard people talk about "lock confusion" where you just can't seem to keep track of what's happening inside the lock while attempting to pick it, & I have it bad...can anyone suggest a method for finding the right tension or tell me where I may be going wrong? Or am I just not being patient enough?

[mseifert]

Single Pin Picking is by far the hardest way to attack a lock... And it does take patience and practice.. Here a few things that have tripped me up..

I have had trouble in the past where the shaft of the pick has half or over set a pin and I didn't notice it .. Usually pin #1... This can also happen if you have a deep bidding on pin #1 and a shallow bidding on pin#2 or 3 etc... Make sure you are setting 4 pins or a 4 pins lock, 5 on a 5, etc .. The last pin can get lost in the back there...

If one of your pins has a shallow bidding for example a 1 then it is very easy to over set the pin .. If you don't feel/hear the distinctive click, even if the pin has tension, then it didn't set reset tension and start over..

If you feel yourself getting frustrated with it .. Put the lock down and walk way for a while..

I know it is not the proper way .. But if all else fails .. take the lock apart and see whats inside..

[Truth_seeker]

Thank you so much that is exactly the type of advice I've been needing & is the reason I joined this forum, I will try to use it as best I can & post any progress, I single pin picked one of my locks last night & I felt like I "kind of" able to keep track of what pins were set or not, but I suspect there was a bit of luck involved...I'm surprised you say that without a click the pin is not set though, that is what I initially though was the case but in the first video link you posted he said sometimes they just ease into place & you may feel it do so & not hear a click, would you say this is inaccurate or would that just be happening on more advanced locks than I'm going to be playing with?

Thanx again for the advice

Side note: incase this information might help with any advice given; I'm from the u.s., all my locks are 5 pins aside from the ones i have rebuilt with more or less than that to practice on (1-6 pins), Most of the locks I'm messing with are kwikset, schalge, a cheap masterlock & a u-haul padlock which is the toughest one I have with no security pins, the schlage locks are deadbolt cylinders & have 4 spool pins or at least I'm assuming they all do because they were from the same building, I'm unable to pick any of them but was able to bump one open with a picking gun, & take it apart to see, & 4 spool pins & 1 regular driver was what I found, & finally I don't have keys for any of them except the u-haul lock so if I can't pick it I can't take it apart...

[mseifert]

The tighter the tolerance in the cylinder and bible of the lock the less of a click you will feel/hear.. They will just kind of "ease" into place.. But the reason the single pin picking (SPP) works is because of the tolerances.. From the list of lock you mentioned I would say that you should be able to feel/hear a distinctive click in the lock .. These are all low security mass produced lock that generally have loose tolerances.

One thing I did when I first started was I wrote down when I got a pin to set.. you might try doing that until you have a better feel for keeping track of the pins..

Good Luck ..

[mseifert]

Just to prove I am not an expert/master by any means .. I am having similar issues with this guy the American 700 Series... There is also a 6pin tubular that have not been able to open ...



But it looks like this on the inside.. I could bypass it but what fun would that be..

[Truth_seeker]

Thanks again, I really appreciate all your feedback, I'm so happy I finally have somewhere to go with my questions when they arise ever since joining..I will try that writing down what pins I have set. I really want to play with some tubular lock too I don't have any at my disposal unfortunately..I had gotten my hamds on one but it was broken so I just drilled the core so I could get a better understanding of the inner workings haha... that lock looks awesome by the way, I can't wait to move up to locks like that, I see that you have a bunch of serrated/spool driver pins but are the tumbler pins (bottom pins) serrated at the top there too? That looks pretty challenging, have you picked it yet or do you just have trouble with it sometimes? Just curious...

[Truth_seeker]

Also I had another question: is there any way to physically feel/hear that a pin has been over set? Or do you just determine this by some sort of process of elimination/trouble shooting?

Thanx again

[GWiens2001]

If you pick locks with the pins at the top, then an overset key pin will not drop back down.

Gordon

[phrygianradar]

In my experience, sometimes when you overset a pin others will drop down. I had that problem a lot because I was using too much tension and then would overset a pin (because I had to use so much force to push it up) and have a bunch of the previously set pins come down again. Then I would have to start all over. Once I got better at using lighter tension things got a lot easier. I still try to use as light of tension as I can and feel each of the pins to see which one seems to be the tightest. It may not be really tight and hard to lift with light tension, but when you set it you can still feel that it is set. It will click and then you can go over the rest of the pins again to see which ones are springy, loose (already set and have no spring) and the next tightest pin. I like the idea of writing down which pins you set to keep track until you can do it in your mind. The ultimate key, as everyone knows, is practice. All the time! Lock picking is like an addiction! Any free time I get, I will pull out a lock and pick it. Your hands and other senses will memorize what it feels like to pick locks if you do it enough. It is such a wonderful hobby...

[Truth_seeker]

It truly us an addiction haha I can't lay eyes on a lock without wondering if I could pick it given the chance, I love it! I appreciate your guys's input & after reading what you said I totally know what your talking about I just didn't notice before (probably because I was blinded by the frustration of not being able to pick the lock) & what you said about the pins dropping from oversetting a pin due to too much tension is exactly what I was attempting to articulate in my original post so thank you for that..I have been making some real progress I feel..i have been practicing & really trying to put my mind to it using the advice I have been given, I have been trying to force myself to stick to one lock for the time being (for the most part) & have found a kwikset cylinder I have been able to successfully single pin pick, multiple consecutive times & I'm fairly certain I was able to keep track of what pins were set or not, thank you for the advice, it has proved invaluable, I will continue to practice & ask more questions as they arise...
Thanx again...
Truth_seeker