Does / Could a lock like this exist?

[Cub]

So today I was just messing around picking a clear lock I had and then I started to wonder, what if a lock had multiple pin sets so that a key would open the lock without a problem, but if one were to try to pick it, they would have to pick the lock two or three times.

For example, in a standard cylinder, there are a set of 5 pins, which the key would set so the lock opens. But what if at say 20degrees, there is another set of pins that would only fall into the cylinder if the key was not present (if it was picked)?

I know that this wouldn't do anything more then slow down picking, but I think it would add some security at least.

What do you think?

Here's a quick attempt at an illustration to show what I'm talking about:

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

Not sure How much you know about pick tools yet... but go look up what a "Plug Spinner" is. I think it would be great for the unweary... but after they come across one of those once, they'll know what to do the next time

But keep the ideas coming!!!

[GWiens2001]

KABA Micro switch lock could be set up to be used that way easily enough.





Gordon

[FarmerFreak]

Tubular locks do that. You should also research trap pins which almost exactly what you are looking for.

[Cub]

Alright, thanks guys!

[C locked]

About 2 years ago. I found a patent like that. Designed as anti bump. Had a second driver pin stack. That When bumped. The pins dropped down into the chambers locking the cylinder. Trapping the key. Problem i saw with it.. Bump key was still in the lock. It Just needed bumping again to turn.. the patent stated that the cylinder was designed to be drilled in the event it had 'gone off'.

I haven't seen any product utilising this yet. I'm guessing that they found their problem.

[GWiens2001]

Or not the market they hoped for. Have seen a few locks with great pick resistant ideas that never took off. Probably dozens - or more - patents with the same idea.

Gordon

[zeke79]

M&C Antiklop works on the same principal if I recall correctly.

[boogietoot]

I seen something like you described (atleast how I picture what you described) it allowed the key to be pulled out in multiple positions and was used for key switch.

[peterwn]

So today I was just messing around picking a clear lock I had and then I started to wonder, what if a lock had multiple pin sets so that a key would open the lock without a problem, but if one were to try to pick it, they would have to pick the lock two or three times.

For example, in a standard cylinder, there are a set of 5 pins, which the key would set so the lock opens. But what if at say 20degrees, there is another set of pins that would only fall into the cylinder if the key was not present (if it was picked)?

I know that this wouldn't do anything more then slow down picking, but I think it would add some security at least.

What do you think?

Here's a quick attempt at an illustration to show what I'm talking about:

British Yale produced a ''cabinet' size cam cylinder with two sets of upper pins so the key could be inserted, turned 45 degrees or so then removed. The catalogue noted that the cylinder could not be masterkeyed. One I saw was fitted to a 'Marconi' outdoor TV van made in UK.

I assume the Ving key over-ride on card hotel locks uses a similar principle. They would be keyed alike with the only keys held by management. However the cylinder presumably contains spacers as in a masterkeyed lock. If a key is lost, each lock could presumably be set to a fresh key by inserting the old key, turning it, and removing old key in the other upper pin position. The 'next' key would be used to return cylinder to 'normal' leaving a spacer behind hence rendering the 'old' key inoperable. The process could be repeated several times, before the cylinders required re-keying.

[skeleton_keys]

Not quite what you're talking about, but I remember my old boss teaching me to pick open the lock on top of a gumball machine. I'm pretty sure it was some kind of double-sided wafer lock...you had to pick again at every 90 degree turn, four times for each full rotation of the cylinder. Annoying as hell.

I think Detex panic bars have that same type of lock holding their case on...only one-sided this time, but the key lets you unscrew the cylinder, otherwise you'd have to pick over and over to get it out.

[smokingman]

Not quite what you're talking about, but I remember my old boss teaching me to pick open the lock on top of a gumball machine. I'm pretty sure it was some kind of double-sided wafer lock...you had to pick again at every 90 degree turn, four times for each full rotation of the cylinder. Annoying as hell.

I think Detex panic bars have that same type of lock holding their case on...only one-sided this time, but the key lets you unscrew the cylinder, otherwise you'd have to pick over and over to get it out.

I used to carry some foam rubber earplugs just for this type of thing.
Once the lock is picked you stuff the earplug material into the keyway until packed tightly and it will keep the tumblers in place untill you pull it out with a broken key romover or some tweezers.
Worked most of the time, saved a lot of frustration.

[skeleton_keys]

Smokingman: Ha! Brilliant. I love that solution, good thinking!

[GWiens2001]

Just don't pack it so tight that the foam expands and lifts the wafers up as you turn the plug. The wafers block at both top and bottom of the plug, so they need to be kept in place.

Gordon

[smokingman]

Just don't pack it so tight that the foam expands and lifts the wafers up as you turn the plug. The wafers block at both top and bottom of the plug, so they need to be kept in place.

Gordon

Yes , and you must work quickly for the foam can change shape and get beteen the wafers
and get stuck if left in the keyway for too long, but for quick turning
and removal it works pretty good.