American Lock - Pins locked up

[Divinorum]

Hey guys. I have a series 20 American Lock. I have picked it several times in the past. I have been trying to re-pick it for about a week now with no luck . I don't believe the series 20 has any security pins. People have said it has serrated key pins but I can't see the serrations.

The problem is that the pins in the lock become completely locked up (no pun intended). As I'm picking, it seems like the start to the binding order (front to back) is 2,5,1. Once the 1 pin sets there is a very dramatic movement in the plug. So dramatic that it almost seems open. After that movement all the pins lock up real hard. It locks up to the point where i can release all tension and no pins will drop and no pins will move, even if i push really hard on them. I am very stumped. I could understand if I were using to much tension that no pins would move, but with very very little/no tension at all why would all the pins lock up so hard? Is this something known about American locks? The lock is definitely not open (tried the screwdriver to test it). Thanks!

[HerrMannelig]

The problem is that the pins in the lock become completely locked up (no pun intended). As I'm picking, it seems like the start to the binding order (front to back) is 2,5,1. Once the 1 pin sets there is a very dramatic movement in the plug. So dramatic that it almost seems open. After that movement all the pins lock up real hard. It locks up to the point where i can release all tension and no pins will drop and no pins will move, even if i push really hard on them.

Sounds like a false set.

You'll need to test pins (and reduce tension probably) until pushing up gives you counter rotation. Once you know what is going on inside, it is not difficult to pick (in itself, individual locks can be difficult).

You can see a tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVsI4qyl3g

I am very stumped. I could understand if I were using to much tension that no pins would move, but with very very little/no tension at all why would all the pins lock up so hard? Is this something known about American locks? The lock is definitely not open (tried the screwdriver to test it). Thanks!

Because the plug has turned because of a very thin section on the spool driver pin, and the holes are not aligned for normal pins to move.

[Divinorum]

The series 20 must have some spools in there after all then because you were correct it was a false set. I have picked other locks with spools but this ones tension control seemed much trickier. After reading your post I went back and tried again. I literally had to lift my finger off the tension wrench entirely to get that pin to fully set. Once it set the other pins loosened up. What I thought was little to no tension was actually still to much. Which I find strange because in every other lock I've picked if you let go of tension entirely the pins drop. This one the pins stay in place unless you rotate the plug back. This is a very very sensitive lock. It's nice that I can open a lock over and over, then put it down for months and pick it back up and get a challenge out of it again. Thanks for the advice. I'm progressing every day

[HerrMannelig]

The series 20 must have some spools in there after all then because you were correct it was a false set. I have picked other locks with spools but this ones tension control seemed much trickier. After reading your post I went back and tried again. I literally had to lift my finger off the tension wrench entirely to get that pin to fully set.

Definitely a spool (or similar) drive pin. I've had surprise security pins as well. Recently, I did this lock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ildzm3NWQ0o

I thought it would be a basic pin tumbler with no surprises. I had a concussion (mostly better now) and I couldn't rest. It turns out it had spools and a tricky bitting. I think it is the most time I spent picking a lock on video. I am using an offset half diamond because I like that pick, and because I saw the keys on the shackle.

Once it set the other pins loosened up. What I thought was little to no tension was actually still to much. Which I find strange because in every other lock I've picked if you let go of tension entirely the pins drop. This one the pins stay in place unless you rotate the plug back.

It depends on the lock. Some allow you to even let go entirely, and it stays put. Some have springs and you have to fight the entire time or they all drop. The lock I did last required very fine tension control. Even slightly too much ("light" for most locks), and the wafers wouldn't move at all. Not enough, and they all dropped.

Lock picking is almost entirely about tension

This is a very very sensitive lock. It's nice that I can open a lock over and over, then put it down for months and pick it back up and get a challenge out of it again. Thanks for the advice. I'm progressing every day

With locks, there is always a lock design which will give one pause as one learns to deal with it. That is the fun thing about lock picking. There is always more...

[daniel22747]

Ok a couple things here.

First in most american brand locks the core does not reverse rotate. In most padlocks the core is under spring tension and will rotate back as you release tension- not true with american brand.

If you really need to drop some pins might have to very gentle rotate the core backwards manually. But this is not usually needed.

In your case you clearly have a spool pin causing a false set. The false set sounds deep from what you are saying so it will be hard to get out of. Also, sinse there is no auto reverse roation, setting a spool pin in a Amrican brand lock often requires more upward pressure than in other padlocks

[Squelchtone]

Good suggestions so far, hope they will work for you, but in case you are still struggling...

Try picking it in reverse..

overlift all pins as high as they will possibly go using the back of a hook pick, then to hold them up there apply medium/hard tension and then insert hook pick normally and start sloooowly backing off the tension and setting pins one by one until it opens.

[Divinorum]

Ok a couple things here.
In your case you clearly have a spool pin causing a false set. The false set sounds deep from what you are saying so it will be hard to get out of. Also, sinse there is no auto reverse roation, setting a spool pin in a Amrican brand lock often requires more upward pressure than in other padlocks

I have managed to get it open several times since I made this post. Still practicing though, it's far from mastered. That false set does take a lot of force to correct, much more than I'm used to. I'll give reverse picking it a shot and see if that's any easier. I read somewhere that american lock cylinders can bind up if you use bottom of the key way tension. I'm currently using BOK because TOK even with a prybar is awkward to hold. Could that be adding to my problem?