Which lock pick to start with?

[99tnaigeci]

Hey guys.

I came across a video on youtube teaching how to make shims out of cans, to open combination locks. Since then I have been interested in lock picking, but lack the required equipment.
I have done some research and I am looking for a 'half diamond' pick.
I also found a site recommended from this thread :http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=39809

The site is
http://www.lockpicktools.com/single-picks/
The problem is I don't know which pick to order, even though I know I am looking for a half diamond pick.
Would I be picking '2E - Euro Hollow Half Diamond'
or '2E - Euro Hollow Half Diamond'? Are they different things from the pick I am looking for?

Also, the website says they charge minimum $17 on international shipping. Surely not reasonable for items that can be put into a few letters right? I don't know, I'll send them a message after.

Thanks in advance guys.

[HerrMannelig]

Where are you?

I prefer to order picks individually. A half diamond is useful, but a short hook is usually the more general purpose pick for most people.

[99tnaigeci]

Hmm I am in Australia.

I've read threads about half diamond compared to hooks, and I've gathered that it comes down to preference.
I could try the hook, but even so, which would I get from the shop I listed?
8 - Short Hook (flat top)
9 - Med Hook (round top)
10 - Long Hook (flat top)
4E - Euro Slim Line Short Hook

+there is another half diamond listed on the site:3E - Euro Straight Shank Half Diamond

I really don't know the difference haha. I picked up that I need 'half diamond' or 'small hook'. These all have slightly different names.
I don't want to get the wrong pick and not be able to start lockpicking.

[HerrMannelig]

Hmm I am in Australia.

We just had an Australian thread here recently. I posted on it: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23115&p=425675#p425674

I've read threads about half diamond compared to hooks, and I've gathered that it comes down to preference.

Most people use hooks for SPP. I use an off-set half diamond more than I see others though.

I could try the hook, but even so, which would I get from the shop I listed?
8 - Short Hook (flat top)
9 - Med Hook (round top)
10 - Long Hook (flat top)
4E - Euro Slim Line Short Hook

You could get whatever you wanted. I do not know what type of locks you have in Australia. Slimline or "Euro" picks are thinner metal than the others for narrower keyways. Naturally, slim/euro picks work in larger locks, but thicker picks don't work well in smaller locks. But, the thinner a pick is, the more easily it will bend and break.

I do not own any of those picks, and they have handle differences. But I would get a "short hook" in the regular and slim versions. Since hooks are the most useful picks for general purpose picking, I'd recommend not worrying about getting too many.

From this picture: http://www.lockpicktools.com/plain-handle/

I'd recommend: 1, 3, 8 for the pick style, and you could choose the handle which is your preference.

I really don't know the difference haha. I picked up that I need 'half diamond' or 'small hook'. These all have slightly different names.
I don't want to get the wrong pick and not be able to start lockpicking.

There is no "wrong pick" really. It is more about the person, than the tools.

Personally, I'd recommend (using a shop and brand I'm familiar with):

Either one of these: http://www.lockpickshop.com/SP-09.html or http://www.lockpickshop.com/MP-07.html

Either one of these: http://www.lockpickshop.com/MSL-06.html orhttp://www.lockpickshop.com/SLS-06.html

And these: http://www.lockpickshop.com/TW-18.html and http://www.lockpickshop.com/TW-23.html

And if one has the budget, or expects to get into lock picking more:

http://www.lockpickshop.com/PAGODA-01.html
http://www.lockpickshop.com/PAGODA-MSL-11.html

For more tension tools, one can learn to make them oneself if shipping is costly. Having a variety of tension tools is more useful than having a variety of picks.

And also, it depends on the type of lock one is picking. I'm assuming regular pin tumbler locks.

[99tnaigeci]

Hmm then this one seems like it may fit my needs.
4E - Euro Slim Line Short Hook
I was on the lockpickshop website, and I was on the euro slimline section, and said this:
'Made for European and Japanese locks, U.S. and Australian made locks with small or narrow keyways, these SouthOrd Slim Line lock pick sets come in a variety of sizes. Each includes a high quality leather case.'

I guess I'll go for that one. I also need to get a tension wrench. That should be enough to start right?
Thanks for the help

[Squelchtone]

Hi,

I have to say that I'm not really happy to see yet another "what pick set should I buy" thread, we already have dozens of these thread, please please do some searching and reading on the forum before starting a new thread for a commonly asked question. If absolutely stuck and no threads answer your question, then yes, its ok to start a new one, but we try to keep the forum from being cluttered and from wasting members time replying over and over to the same questions.

It makes it easier for future generations of members to finds the one really good thread on which picks to buy if you're from Australia than to find 12 half assed threads on the topic.

Thanks for considering this,

Squelchtone
Site Admin

[99tnaigeci]

Sorry for that then
As a beginner that was told to get either a half diamond or hook, the checkout options list kind of stunned me.
As I have already posted above, there were many different kinds of 'half diamond' and 'hook' picks.
1E - Euro Slim Line Offset Diamond
2E - Euro Hollow Half Diamond
3E - Euro Straight Shank Half Diamond
4E - Euro Slim Line Short Hook

Hollow, offset, shank etc there are many more, that was what this thread was more aimed to be about.

I totally understand where you are coming from though, and I think I have gotten the help I need

[Squelchtone]

Sorry for that then
As a beginner that was told to get either a half diamond or hook, the checkout options list kind of stunned me.
As I have already posted above, there were many different kinds of 'half diamond' and 'hook' picks.
1E - Euro Slim Line Offset Diamond
2E - Euro Hollow Half Diamond
3E - Euro Straight Shank Half Diamond
4E - Euro Slim Line Short Hook

Hollow, offset, shank etc there are many more, that was what this thread was more aimed to be about.

I totally understand where you are coming from though, and I think I have gotten the help I need

Before you leave then, let me clarify that unless it is a local name for a tool in your area, most locksport hobbyists do not use the term 'hollow' or 'shank' when describing a particular pick shape or profile. I know what the seller's web site means, but boy are their names far from what most of us call them every day.

If you want to start off, stay away from gimmicks, all you need is the following in Euro tools (which are thinner than the Standard size) short hook, half diamond, S rake, L rake, half ball, and 2 tension wrenches. Offset diamond is a personal preference you can look at down the road once you get the fundamentals down, and half diamond is just half diamond and implies a straight shank so no need to call it a straight shank, and the undercut half diamond.. not a bad tool, but not need when just starting out.

[99tnaigeci]

Precisely what I was asking for

Thank you guys, I think I'll be good for now.. ;p

[HerrMannelig]

Precisely what I was asking for

Thank you guys, I think I'll be good for now.. ;p

I would consider an S rake and L rake and half ball to be personal preferences. The fundamentals would not include them. I use an L rake for some particular locks where it works very well, but not that often, and I've not used a half or full ball pick at all yet (except to see if it were particularly useful). I own one, but I never found a situation where I thought it would be the tool to use.

On the other hand, the three hump rake (Bogota style) and offset pick are often the best picks to use in my opinion.

I think you'll find that the names of picks and people's preferences vary a lot. Getting a beginner set, so you can see what you like, may be the easiest thing. The set I got first is not what I would choose for myself to use now, but it provided a good basis for me to learn and make choices about what I wanted. I cannot recommend any particular set. I'd just say to look for one which has a good mix of basic picks (less than 10 picks), and a variety of tension tools, at least 2. And if shipping is a concern, get a few extra short hooks, just in case you break or bend one. I think it is probably accurate to say most pickers use the short hook the most often. I do not have many picks, but I have 5 slightly different versions of the short hook, and I have found each of them to be the most suitable in various situations, due to the slight differences in their shapes and construction. (And consider that in light of the fact I sometimes get flak for not using a short hook when I pick on videos.)

[Squelchtone]

I would consider an S rake and L rake and half ball to be personal preferences. The fundamentals would not include them. I use an L rake for some particular locks where it works very well, but not that often, and I've not used a half or full ball pick at all yet (except to see if it were particularly useful). I own one, but I never found a situation where I thought it would be the tool to use.

I disagree with you. Most basic sets have these picks in them, and most beginners get some sort of set, not just a hook and a wrench. Some purists like their hooks and only use a hook, but when learning, I think it is a good idea to rake and single pin pick. Nothing wrong with using an S rake or L rake to rake a lock open to build up ones confidence, and then use a hook to hone one's skill.

As for snowman, ball or half ball picks, they are great for wafer locks such as tool boxes and file cabinets and other locations where wafer cam locks are used. If you've never thought of using a ball style pick in any situation, then I suspect you havent been picking for a very long time.

Just because it doesn't match your own ideal vision of which picks are good, please don't poo poo other's suggestions of which picks are good. Let others speak just as you are allowed to, no need to one up other people's posts, or to correct everyone.

Thanks
Squelchtone

[HerrMannelig]

I would consider an S rake and L rake and half ball to be personal preferences. The fundamentals would not include them. I use an L rake for some particular locks where it works very well, but not that often, and I've not used a half or full ball pick at all yet (except to see if it were particularly useful). I own one, but I never found a situation where I thought it would be the tool to use.

I disagree with you. Most basic sets have these picks in them, and most beginners get some sort of set, not just a hook and a wrench. Some purists like their hooks and only use a hook, but when learning, I think it is a good idea to rake and single pin pick. Nothing wrong with using an S rake or L rake to rake a lock open to build up ones confidence, and then use a hook to hone one's skill.

I know...I was responding to your post which said the same things about my advice. Using a rake to open an easy lock to build one's confidence is a good idea, but I would caution against relying on rakes when starting, because it is used on locks which are easy to rake and require very little understanding. This is good for opening easy locks, but it also seems to cripple development of raking technique. I see many skilled pickers who still rake as if they are just starting, and think some locks cannot be raked, simply because the method they used when starting would not work.

I did not say I was unhappy with this thread, and then present my advice as fundamental and say another's was personal preference. My post was meant to clearly present a varying opinion and that one will eventually forms one's own preferences in time.

As for snowman, ball or half ball picks, they are great for wafer locks such as tool boxes and file cabinets and other locations where wafer cam locks are used. If you've never thought of using a ball style pick in any situation, then I suspect you havent been picking for a very long time.

Actually, I have, but the locks I had which I thought they would be good were too small for my particular picks.

I have found several methods to be great for wafer locks such as those found on tool boxes, but the ball picks I have are too big for use in them. And since I can pick them otherwise quickly with other tools, I have not rushed to get half ball versions.

I have not been picking for a long time (I started in June 2013). However, what I can do is on my Youtube channel if anybody wants to see what types of locks I am comfortable picking.

Just because it doesn't match your own ideal vision of which picks are good, please don't poo poo other's suggestions of which picks are good. Let others speak just as you are allowed to, no need to one up other people's posts, or to correct everyone.

I did write, in response, that there are many preferences and names for picks. To you, the offset half diamond merely a preference, but the others were fundamental. To me, it is the other way around in some ways.

It is difficult to participate in community discussion if discussion is so restricted, and people are not allowed to develop and expand on what is written by others. There are few topics which can be discussed, and the topics which can be discussed are either factual technical descriptions, or about the art of lock manipulation. There will necessarily be a great variety of perspectives on the art of picking. Technically, it is all the same: lift the pins/wafers to the shear line in the binding order and apply tension. Artistically, there are many nuances and perspectives.

Having any personal automatically have the final word makes discussion pointless...that person could go around and answer everything.

I am not correcting anyone I think or trying to "one up" anyone. If that is what participation in discussion looks like, I'll go back to what I was doing before.

But then again, you didn't seem to happy about posting so infrequently, and reading a lot.

[mechanical_nightmare]

Squelchtone wrote: short hook, half diamond, S rake, L rake, half ball, and 2 tension wrenches. Offset diamond is a personal preference you can look at down the road once you get the fundamentals down

I agree with this statement. I personally favor the offset diamond. I will also add that making your own picks will give you greater flexibility because you will be able to create custom tools for specific locks. Also it is fun to do! Nothing wrong with buying them either.