So I bought a safe at auction with no combo!

[Squelchtone]

Hi all, I realize this is a long shot but; A couple of weeks ago, I was at an online auction that I frequent, when a came across a listing that I couldn't pass up. The item description was "Locked combination 50 pound strongbox with handles - no combination, contents unknown, 16" x 12" x 9".
I guess I'm a sucker for the mystery, but I paid 112.50 for this thing and now that I finally have it in my possession, it seems like it's empty. Yes it weighs fifty pounds, but that weight feels mostly like the safe itself, and there's no indication of any contents shifting inside this safe at all. I popped the hinge pins to no avail, and I tried "listening" with a stethoscope, but it didn't take me long to realize I was wasting my time. I could force it open with a bar, or just smash it with a backhoe, but at this point I feel like the only value I have is the safe itself, and I don't want to destroy the only equity I've got. The box itself has no identifying marks of any kind, and dial only says "SG 393". I googled around for awhile and the the best I can come up with is that it's a Sargent & Greenleaf dial combo lock, but I cant even find that model number anywhere.I'm a general contractor/ carpenter by trade so I'm not mechanically inept, and I have lots of picking tools and I have always enjoyed picking locks. But safe cracking is definitely beyond me! Unless I get some help, I'll have to destroy this box just to find out it's empty! Here is the link to some pics;
http://i60.tinypic.com/wmo27s.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2gt92sj.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/2ekt75l.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2myb421.jpg
and just so everybody can see I'm not some creep trying to get into something they shouldn't, here is the auction listing as well:
http://auction.repocast.com/details.cfm?ID=1535010
Thanks a bunch for any advice,
Adam(auction sucker)

[Squelchtone]

Hi and welcome,

I'm pretty certain that the type of S&G safe lock you have is more like this format:


Yale and S&G made similar stuff, some of them looked like this inside:

Fig 2. Example of what yours probably looks like inside.

They don't make them any more and god knows i cant find a Google images search result that shows what it actually looks like from behind, but basically it works like a big boy safe lock, just looks different.

you should try some test combinations such as 25-50-75 or 25-50-25 or 50-25-50, 25-50-25, 10-20-30, 20-40-60

nice container you have there =)
Squelchtone

[afuller]

I tried all the test codes you posted but no luck:-( My wife is never gonna let me hear the end of this one hehe!

[Squelchtone]

I tried all the test codes you posted but no luck:-( My wife is never gonna let me hear the end of this one hehe!

are you pretty handy with dialing the safe combinations in the correct sequence of wheel turns?

I dont know that S&G lock model very well, but it is older so it may be reversed to the newer 6730 models dialing order.

If the combination were 25-50-75 i would dial it like this:

turn the dial Right 3 times past 25 and stop on 25 the 4th time around
turn the dial Left 2 times past 50 and stop on 50 the 3rd time around
turn the dial Right 1 time past 75 and stop on 75 the 2nd time around
turn the dial Left until it retracts the bolt and you can pull the door open.

Now.. if I'm totally wrong on that, just change the Right Left Right Left order into Left Right Left Right

Try this as well.. if you turn the dial around 5 times to the Right, stop at 50, and then turn the dial Left in a smooth and quick motion all the way around back to 50, do you feel or hear one or two "bumps" or "clicks" anywhere along the way? (Since your hand only allows dial to turn so much around, it may require doing this by turning it half way, taking your hand off the dial, and then turning the remainder of the way.)

And if you do feel anything that stands out, at which number along the dial does that happen while looking at the dialing index and if you feel 2 things how many numbers apart are they?

Squelchtone

[torontosafecracker]

I think you have a 6720 Lock , which is a normal footprint. I've scaled the photo to a similar dial ring then placed the lock behind it and checked these pictures, and it looks like a regular lock may fit. with the bolt of the lock holding the door in place.


Other Factory combination that have worked on S&G is

50 (all wheels 50) just dial 4 times to the right or left, and stop at 50, then the opposite direction. If you get to 50 in this direction, it did not work, you may want to try 49,50,51

also
Try
15-30-45

[afuller]

Update. I got the safe open! and the contents were hilarious (to everything but my pocket book)!


KARATE BELTS, A BROKEN POKEMON CHARACTER, AND A STAR WARS PICTURE! LMAO!

I guess you live and learn,
Me and a buddy ended up "bumping" the box to get it open w/o any damage, and subsequently got the com by disassembling the lock 71-74-80. I cant remember if that was the order but those were the digits. I ended up giving the box to the friend who was helping me. He really liked it, and he's just one of those friends who has helped you out a million times without ever wanting anything in return so.......

Thanks for all the help, it is appreciated!

[Squelchtone]

oh dude, you owe us an internal gut shot of the lock and combination wheels! that would help us a lot for future reference! =)

please and thank you,
Squelchtone

[torontosafecracker]

That's awesome, I'm lost when you say you bumped the box.

Also, I would love a picture of the lock, if it's still around!



Thanks for updating.

[torontosafecracker]

Also Squelch, that lock you posted. the small one you said you couldn't find any pics of the back.

I have one now. and would be more than happy to take some pics for you.

TSC

[glenaw]

Just a little information for you and your friend that you gave the safe to.

The safe appears to be a fire safe and a old one to boot. Such a safe does not give a lot of burglary protection. the primary function of these types of safes is to give fire protection. Depending on the rating of the safe and the age will determine the protection that it gives. Generally a fire safe will be rated for 350° for a specified time, most 30-60 minutes, which will only protect paper ( which burns at 405°) this will not protect magnetic media ( which is destroyed at temperatures higher that 125° ).The safe itself will provide very little burglary protection, a crow bar and hammer is all you would need to break into it. The material inside the walls of the safe contains a moisture material that over time will dry out which then makes the safe useless as a fire safe. The way the material works is as the container is heated up in a house fire, which will get as high as 1800°, as the material heats up to a level when the water in the material is turned into steam the steam escapes taking the heat with it.

Just a little background on me so you may accept the information I just gave you.

I worked as a locksmith for over 20 years. I was taught by two master locksmiths both of which had there specialties in master keying and safe work. I'm a California State Certified Journeymen Locksmith which required a three year course of study while working in the industry at the same time.

If you have any other question send them down my way and I will be as straight forward as I can. Giving that some of the information I have is security sensitive there will be questions I will be unable to provide answers to.

Glen