Safe with no lock - HELP! need to re-fit one - thanks :)

[Squelchtone]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forums here, and I sincerely hope someone will be able to assist. I've been searching for days, but thing I need some guidance slightly more 'tailored' to my particular situation.

So, I picked up a fantastic 350 kilogram safe (built like a brick ****house as we say here in Aus!). I got it for $100, as it has had the combination lock removed for whatever reason. As you will see in the pics, the remainder of all the locking mechanisms are there (e.g. bolts, mounting plate for the combo lock, the mechanism that gets held by the bolt to prevent opening etc).

I was hoping some kind soul out there might be able to give me some advice on the kind of parts I need to buy, and a rough idea of how to fit it. The main thing I'm having trouble figuring out is which way to mount the bolt (i.e. which part of the mechanism does it 'slot' in to to prevent opening the door?).

Also, I would really appreciate it if someone could give me a rough estimate on how much something like this would cost (second-hand, if they come up), or new if I have to. I don't want anything fancy - just want it to function It doesn't matter to me if it's neat etc. either.

Ok - first image. This shows the mounting plate, and the mechanism that the bolt will lock. I've put some text & labels on the image to help with identification.

http://imageshack.com/a/img850/6628/4gwu.jpg

GREEN RECTANGLE - I'm assuming it's some kind of 'vertical up' mount that stops the bar at the top here from sliding to pull the pins out, but I can't see where it would actually 'slot' in to to prevent the sliding? Is the mechanism missing something? There seems to be a whole lot of extra mounting points throughout the door...

Second image - this is the 'receptacle' that I assume takes the combination lock mechanism?? (Basically, it's the mounting plate indicated in the last image from the front side).

http://imageshack.com/a/img706/5581/z2dy.jpg

Next image - the mounting plate, mechanism, pins etc from another angle for some extra context.

http://imageshack.com/a/img801/2993/zah9.jpg

Lastly - a close-up of the bolt mounting plate.

http://imageshack.com/a/img577/2398/5nsc.jpg

Well, that's it. I really hope someone can help me out here! I would appreciate it more than you know! If you have any follow up questions you need to ask me etc, please go ahead and post back and I'll do my best to answer.

Thanks so, so much in advance for your help, everyone!

Scott

[octoscott]

Thanks for that - sorry!

[ckc123]

I'm no expert but it looks like the lock would mount on the bottom but there is a plate missing to make it flush with the back side of the door..

now.. that raises a question of the location being down low.. it would be a wierd location to have a dial for the lock (unless the door had two locks, one down low, and one up high (behind the panel).

can identification on who made the safe?

[LockDocWa]

I don't see a good place for a dial lock.
Maybe it is suppose to have a keypad style lock.
Can we get a picture of the front??

[octoscott]

I'm no expert but it looks like the lock would mount on the bottom but there is a plate missing to make it flush with the back side of the door..

now.. that raises a question of the location being down low.. it would be a wierd location to have a dial for the lock (unless the door had two locks, one down low, and one up high (behind the panel).

can identification on who made the safe?

Hi guys!

Thanks for the replies. I'm fairly sure the hole in the bottom there is for a key lock (a lot of safes have them as an extra layer of security apparently). I'm fairly sure at least the bolt would be mounted at the top (installing something like this - in the image below. I'd just build some stuff up around the dial to make it neater. The 'rod' would go through the hole to operate the bolt.

The part that looks a bit like a 'deadbolt' gets mounted to the plate, and the little bolt stops the mechanism from moving open. The dial gets mounted into the receptacle in the front, and hey presto - I have a working safe again.

What I'm having trouble figuring out is where in the mechanism (the bars etc attached to the handle) the brass 'bolt' slides into to lock it in place.
One alternative would be for me to go electronic/biometric (as mentioned below), in which case I could just make a custom location for the bolt to operate against the mechanism) - but this is an expensive option.Another thing I was thinking of is welding an 'extension' piece onto the locking bolt to slot into somewhere (prob not the best idea - if it snaps off - no safe entry for me!)



Oh - for reference, below is what a safe is meant to look like (totally different mechanism, but shows the generic idea) with the lock installed (this is in the open position, allowing the pins to be drawn out of their holes):



Oh - and in response to the make and model question. It's chinese...

See the image below for the brand. It weighs 350kg (if that helps at all?) and is ex-government).

I ran OCR on the image with the 'brand' and translated it and it said something about 'has been in the library in x city' - very strange.



Picture of the front of the safe below too:

[Evan]

I was hoping some kind soul out there might be able to give me some advice on the kind of parts I need to buy, and a rough idea of how to fit it. The main thing I'm having trouble figuring out is which way to mount the bolt (i.e. which part of the mechanism does it 'slot' in to to prevent opening the door?).

GREEN RECTANGLE - I'm assuming it's some kind of 'vertical up' mount that stops the bar at the top here from sliding to pull the pins out, but I can't see where it would actually 'slot' in to to prevent the sliding? Is the mechanism missing something? There seems to be a whole lot of extra mounting points throughout the door...

Second image - this is the 'receptacle' that I assume takes the combination lock mechanism?? (Basically, it's the mounting plate indicated in the last image from the front side).

I am by no means a safe expert, but have seen enough to know that this didn't have a dial-type lock installed on it, it used some type of electronic keypad lock... Your assumption with the "green rectangle" business is incorrect... The keypad and its electronics fit into the square pocket in the front, the large hole is for wiring to connect to a remotely operated solenoid lock bolt which merely extends outward in the area next to the pivot point where all of the holes are on the inside of the door... If the lockbar can't pivot, the bolts can not open...

A lot of electronic locks have a time delay or dual custody (need two codes) features, given how the lower hole interacts with the boltworks it looks as if it is intended to be the equivalent of the day gate on a bank vault, allowing the main lock to be opened and held back from locking again and the container opened and closed multiple times without having to wait for the time delay before the main lock is again secured when access is no longer required...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

The part that looks a bit like a 'deadbolt' gets mounted to the plate, and the little bolt stops the mechanism from moving open. The dial gets mounted into the receptacle in the front, and hey presto - I have a working safe again.
....



Oh - for reference, below is what a safe is meant to look like (totally different mechanism, but shows the generic idea) with the lock installed (this is in the open position, allowing the pins to be drawn out of their holes):

oh, trust us, we know what it normally looks like and what you are asking advice for, if it were easy, we would have already provided a good answer but this is a custom job.

I like how you got the ebay photo of the Japanese generic S&G 6700 made by SAMO, I've been watching that lock.. and the other pic is the inside of what looks like a Major or Meilink B Rate safe.

I like everyone's idea of an electronic keypad, because it gives you the flexibility to mount the lock case anywhere the bolt can block the bolt work.

you may want to consider mounting it VD (vertical down) and just cutting a notch out of one of the sliding bolt work bars that the lock sits in when normally closed, then when the 'deadbolt' is retracted, it will no longer be in the cutout of the boltwork and the handle can be swung and bolts retracted.

I'd like to suggest that you block up the 'cam lock' hole or use it for mounting the electronic combination pad, and then make the cutout in the top of horizontal metal bar that has the tab welded to it for what we assume was the cam lock. then mount the electonic lock on some sort of spacer or stand off you will have to affix to the interior door so that the locks bolt is right over the horizontal bar and matches up with the cut out you make in it.

I'd go with a Sargent Greenleaf 6120 because it has a square bolt, and I think Evan touched upon swing bolts, you would just have to figure out Vertical Up or Vertical Down mounting so the swing bolt could wing with the action of the handle being turned and the boltwork pushing the swing bolt into the safe lock case. Lagard makes nice swing bolts, and the S&G version is called the Titan

hope that helps
Squelchtone

[octoscott]

I like everyone's idea of an electronic keypad, because it gives you the flexibility to mount the lock case anywhere the bolt can block the bolt work.

you may want to consider mounting it VD (vertical down) and just cutting a notch out of one of the sliding bolt work bars that the lock sits in when normally closed, then when the 'deadbolt' is retracted, it will no longer be in the cutout of the boltwork and the handle can be swung and bolts retracted.

I'd like to suggest that you block up the 'cam lock' hole or use it for mounting the electronic combination pad, and then make the cutout in the top of horizontal metal bar that has the tab welded to it for what we assume was the cam lock. then mount the electonic lock on some sort of spacer or stand off you will have to affix to the interior door so that the locks bolt is right over the horizontal bar and matches up with the cut out you make in it.

I'd go with a Sargent Greenleaf 6120 because it has a square bolt, and I think Evan touched upon swing bolts, you would just have to figure out Vertical Up or Vertical Down mounting so the swing bolt could wing with the action of the handle being turned and the boltwork pushing the swing bolt into the safe lock case. Lagard makes nice swing bolts, and the S&G version is called the Titan

Hi guys,

really appreciate your efforts on helping me out with this! Sincere apologies if I came across as arrogant when it came to my assumptions, or if I over-simplified the situation (it appears I did massively!).

I really like the idea of using a remote solenoid and just cutout in the horzontal bar to prevent the bolt from being retracted by the handle - going to run with that in a VU config as suggested.

[GWiens2001]

Give us pictures when you get it done, P-L-E-A-S-E!!!

Gordon

[octoscott]

Give us pictures when you get it done, P-L-E-A-S-E!!!

Gordon

Will do

[Squelchtone]

After you posted the photo of the outside of the door it hit me what you have there..

I believe you have a flammables / chemical storage cabinet.

The square cutout in the front was probably for a handle assembly with build in wafer cam lock.

check out this photo:


what do you guys think?

[GWiens2001]

It sure makes a lot of sense, Squelchtone!

Gordon

[ckc123]

Hmmm not sure about the flammable storage idea.. the metal on metal is not spark proof which you would require for a flammable storage cabinet

[LockDocWa]

As a side note: I have removed more broken S&G 6120
safe locks than all of the other manufactures combined.

If you decide to install an electric keypad style lock,
I would go with an Amsec ESL10.
#1) Affordable
#2) if the combo gets lost a backup combo can be obtained from the manufacturer.
#3) It has a square bolt.
#4) They are (for the most part) reliable.

If money is not a object, Globalok has the industries lowest malfunction rate.

Hope I didn't step on your toes Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

As a side note: I have removed more broken S&G 6120
safe locks than all of the other manufactures combined.

If you decide to install an electric keypad style lock,
I would go with an Amsec ESL10.
#1) Affordable
#2) if the combo gets lost a backup combo can be obtained from the manufacturer.
#3) It has a square bolt.
#4) They are (for the most part) reliable.

If money is not a object, Globalok has the industries lowest malfunction rate.

Hope I didn't step on your toes Squelchtone

not at all, I've known about the stripped worm drive problem on the 6120's, had hoped they had that issue fixed these days.. I like Amsec and the ESL10 is a good lock, nice solid click instead of waiting for the S&G's motor to rotate the gears..

good call man,
Squelchtone