Lock Damage Question

[parkourer]

First: Sorry for posting too much , this will be my last post in a while (i hope).

I made the mistake of letting someone who doesn't know how to pick try to pick my Master Padlock (which i bought to practice on). He pushed the pins too hard, and there were some weird sounds.

Before this I could pick the lock somewhat easily. Now, I can still pick the lock, but not as frequently. Also, when I try to pick it, the lock makes scratchy sounds, of which I don't know are normal. The key still fits and turns perfectly though. My two questions are : If i can pick a lock, and the key fits and works perfectly to that lock does that mean that there is no damage? Or might there be some damage

-Lol i'm way too paranoid
-Parkourer

[spandexwarrior]

About the only thing that could be damaged if it still operates with the key is the springs. If you really jam the pins up you can compress the springs. If this happens, the bottom pins might not always drop down as far as they should... essentially you would have an over-set pin right off the bat. Test each pin with no tension and make sure they're springy and move freely all the way up and down with almost no force. Also make sure the lock is oriented down so that gravity will let the pins drop - the lock should work this way even with no springs. And, if this is the Master No.3, there is no way to no-destructively gut the thing to investigate further.

-Brian

[parkourer]

About the only thing that could be damaged if it still operates with the key is the springs. If you really jam the pins up you can compress the springs. If this happens, the bottom pins might not always drop down as far as they should... essentially you would have an over-set pin right off the bat. Test each pin with no tension and make sure they're springy and move freely all the way up and down with almost no force. Also make sure the lock is oriented down so that gravity will let the pins drop - the lock should work this way even with no springs. And, if this is the Master No.3, there is no way to no-destructively gut the thing to investigate further.

-Brian

Thanks for the info, however, like i said, i can still pick the lock, just takes a lot more time. How would i be able to pick it if it oversets right when i start? And if the springs are compressed, is there a fix for this? And how will i know if it is compressed? I did this, and i got 3 pins (i think) so either the one that i didnt get (the very back one) is compressed, or im just not good at feeling. What do you think?

[spandexwarrior]

My thought is that you need to get a few more locks, especially ones you can take apart and inspect so that you can see for sure exactly what the state of every component is and how it interacts with everything else. Something could have been damaged but more than likely not - there is no way to know for sure. It also seems like a bad idea to get hung up on a single lock, if you're having problems with one, pick up another and continue on for now. Try a different pick or tension tool, or try turning the opposite direction. There are days that I have trouble with a simple lock that I've picked a hundred times before - the lock didn't change, neither did my tools, I'm the variable. The best advice I can give is to understand the lock you are working with in extreme detail so that you can visualize everything that happens when you're working with it. Go slow, don't try to pick it necessarily, just understand what happens and visualize it when you follow the techniques you'll need to open it later. For example, apply light tension, find the binding pin. Set that one pin. Change tension and try again. Work front to back and then back to front. Know what it feels like to set the pins, listen to the sounds they make and what happens to the plug. The bottom line is that you can't expect to learn everything over night. I learn new things every day and I've been picking locks for 20 years. You just need to practice and keep learning.

-Brian

[I Pik U]

If it is a rekeyable Master padlock, and you need springs or pins, I may be able to help you out.

Rob

[KPick]

Just get another lock. If you're in the states, let me know and I'll send you a couple of locks.

[parkourer]

Just get another lock. If you're in the states, let me know and I'll send you a couple of locks.

Thanks, but another lock is already in the mail for me.

If it is a rekeyable Master padlock, and you need springs or pins, I may be able to help you out.

Rob

I don't think it is a rekeable Master padlock. Its a No. 3

[I Pik U]

No, the #3 is not.
Some padlocks will have what looks like a removable plate around the cylinder area, which is usually held by a machine screw that sits in the bottom of the shackle hole, the screw can be removed when the padlock is unlocked.

[C locked]

...First. Try lubricating the lock. When picking, the pick being a harder material then the brass pins. Will "shave" shavings off the pins. It the lock hasn't been lubricated that could account for the sound.
...second. To test for a crushed spring. Hold the lock "upside down" (sorry, for using non pc. Terms) so that the springs are fighting gravity. If when turning the key, it is clunky. then Your spring is crushed..
...hope that helps.

[parkourer]

...First. Try lubricating the lock. When picking, the pick being a harder material then the brass pins. Will "shave" shavings off the pins. It the lock hasn't been lubricated that could account for the sound.
...second. To test for a crushed spring. Hold the lock "upside down" (sorry, for using non pc. Terms) so that the springs are fighting gravity. If when turning the key, it is clunky. then Your spring is crushed..
...hope that helps.

There are two things I noticed:
1. The Key slides in easier than it did before picking
2. When i succesfully pick it and the plug turns, the first pin is not in the set position (its still visible), I have to push it up to be in the set position
What do you mean by clunky??

[Divinorum]

2. When i succesfully pick it and the plug turns, the first pin is not in the set position (its still visible), I have to push it up to be in the set position

If the first top pin was not set the plug would not turn and the lock would not open. It sounds like you are mixing up your key pins and top pins because you cant visibly see if a lock's top pin is set unless it's cut away. From what you are describing it sounds like the first top pin did set (because the lock opened) and the first key pin fell down to resting state.

[parkourer]

If the first top pin was not set the plug would not turn and the lock would not open. It sounds like you are mixing up your key pins and top pins because you cant visibly see if a lock's top pin is set unless it's cut away. From what you are describing it sounds like the first top pin did set (because the lock opened) and the first key pin fell down to resting state.

Exactly! So nothings wrong with that? I mean, usually when i successfully open a lock i wouldn't see any pins at all.

[GWiens2001]

Frequently if the key pin is short, the driver pin will be visible when the lock is not picked.

If you are successfully picking the lock and still see a pin above the key pin, it is most likely a master pin.

Gordon

[parkourer]

If you are successfully picking the lock and still see a pin above the key pin, it is most likely a master pin.

The thing is, im pretty sure that its the key pin i'm seeing. When a lock is unpicked I see the first key pin, but it is springy. While picking, I don't seem to need to pick the first pin at all, and when I successfully pick the lock and the plug turns I can still see the first key pin, the only thing different is that this time its not springy, and offers no resistance.

[Divinorum]

If the first top pin was not set the plug would not turn and the lock would not open. It sounds like you are mixing up your key pins and top pins because you cant visibly see if a lock's top pin is set unless it's cut away. From what you are describing it sounds like the first top pin did set (because the lock opened) and the first key pin fell down to resting state.

Exactly! So nothings wrong with that? I mean, usually when i successfully open a lock i wouldn't see any pins at all.

Nothing is wrong with a key pin settling to resting positions after the top pin has been set. This is normal and happens very often when picking. Look at this diagram and think about it. After re-read up on the difference between key pins and top pins because thinking that all the pins should be pushed up and not visible when picking a lock is a common mistake.


The top pins are set just above the shear line and the key pins (as long as you did not over set them) stay below the shear line. Naturally due to gravity they can and will fall back down to resting position. If you feel a key pin and it feels loose with no spring resistance then that means the key pins top pin is probably set above the shear line and no longer exerting a downward force on the key pin. Of course when security pins come into play this feedback may change a little, but a standard lock should operate this way.