Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

[jeffmoss26]

I believe they are the same, just that the A50 is not designed to be rekeyed (though you just need to drill the rivet out from underneath the shackle and install a screw & security nut)

[nsquidc]

I believe they are the same, just that the A50 is not designed to be rekeyed (though you just need to drill the rivet out from underneath the shackle and install a screw & security nut)

Thanks!

Since I'm assuming the cylinders are the same dimension, I can swap pins from the A50 into the new 5200? I ask because I found a batch of A50s for cheap and am essentially buying them for serrated drivers and keypins.

[Onz]

Thanks!

Since I'm assuming the cylinders are the same dimension, I can swap pins from the A50 into the new 5200? I ask because I found a batch of A50s for cheap and am essentially buying them for serrated drivers and keypins.

Nice pdf you can read: http://www.americanlock.com/pdfs/A-004_ ... l_2010.pdf

5.56mm for A50, and nearly 100% sure it's the same for the 5200. Thought the actuator is different (rotated 90o) if it's the same as mine.

[nsquidc]

Perfect, thanks!

[nsquidc]

This bump stop pin is throwing me for a bit of a loop, as I haven't tried picking anything like it before. I got over the tight keyway by using a Falle reach perched on the center ward with bottom tension. I remember the old 5200s were "crunchy" from the serrated pins. I don't feel anything like that now, which tells me that I'm dealing with standard drivers and keypins (as the deconstruction showed.) Should be easy...

The bump stop pin is a slightly wider diameter, so should be the first to bind, right? I find that the first (closest to the keyway) pin is colored red and doesn't have any springiness, so I'm assuming the is the bump stop pin. If I don't set this first pin, none of the other pins bind. In order to set the first pin, I need to push it up way into the cylinder. When I do, the whole cylinder then turns slightly, almost like a false set. The other pins then bind, allowing me to set them one by one. The cylinder turns slightly as I do too...

...but the lock never opens. My hunch is that what I think is the bumpstop pin (the first pin) is overset, but I can't get any darn feedback on the thing as it's not contacting the driver. Then again, if I'm oversetting a bumpstop, would the cylinder turn as it does, like in a false set? (Can the bump stop pin even *be* the first pin? Am I reading this lock wrong?)

Bugs the heck out of me. I mean, these new 5200s should be only a tad up from Master 140s, right?

[GWiens2001]

Only the center part of the bump stop pin is larger in diameter. The part that fits into the keyway is narrower. When the other pins set enough for the bump-stop pin to finally bind, the sharp edge of the bump-stop pin bites into the pin channel of the plug, making it harder to move it up. Tension control is important.

Gordon

[nsquidc]

Makes sense, thanks. Though I thought that the bump-stop pin can't be the first pin? (This is a new lock so it hasn't been re-pinned.)

[GWiens2001]

If the first pin (closest to the front), after you set it, still let's the key pin fall down, then it is not overset.

There is also a difference between the first pin (closest to the entry of the keyway) and the first binding pin, in case that is confusing you.

Gordon

[nsquidc]

Yep, the pin falls down. In this case, the closest pin and the first to set is one and the same The closest pin also feels like it's already set (no springiness, flops around when you flip the lock) at baseline, so I'm almost certain it's the bumpstop.

Guess I'm kinda confused why the bump stop is the closest pin. I didn't think this was possible.

[GWiens2001]

Anything is possible.

Gordon

[nsquidc]

Hah! Fair enough.

[cheerIO]

Is the "old" good core a six pin like in the civilian Americans? but only filled with 5 pins?

[GWiens2001]

The old core is also 5 pin. If you get the 5260, those have the 6 pin cores.

Gordon

[cheerIO]

Thanks.

Your "old" lock is Sept 07, and the "new" one is May 11

My 5200 is older than your old at March 04, but it seems to have worse pins that your old one and at least a little better pins than your new one. It has spools but that's it. And all the driver pins are quite a bit longer than the regular american spool-ated spools.

What's the deal with that?

[GWiens2001]

The older locks, like yours from '04, or some I have going back to the early 90's or late 80's have spool pins because they had not come out with spoorated pins yet. Your lock should have had serrated pins, though. Your lock may have been rekeyed, and the person used standard pins instead of serrated. Many of the Master/American rekey kits don't have the serrated key pins.

However, you can use a drill and a needle file to put serrations on your key pins!

Gordon