Black&Decker is Ruining Lock Co's

[billdeserthills]

This has been pissing me off for awhile now. Black & Decker the disposable tool company that owns Dewalt , has been buying up lock companies as well. Then they find every way possible to cheapen the product which I think should be a crime. Yesterday I discovered that not only did the buy out Baldwin, which was the last hand-forged lock co in America but now they are using their crummy
kwikset keyway in new Baldwin locks, instead of the old schlage keyway. Not only that but they already crudded up Weiser lock co, when they bought them out, by substituting their crappy kwikset keyway, and getting rid of the weiser keyway that has been in use for soo many years. I had a client yesterday, guy called me on the phone wanting to know if I can key a schlage keyed lock to a Baldwin key. Of couse says I, just bring it to my shop. As I have said, when he got there is when I discovered that his Baldwin key was actually cut on a Kwikset Titan blank. He wanted to have some schlage keyway locks work on a kwikset key & was unhappy to learn that I would need to change out the plug on each lock since his Baldwin key would not enter the keyhole, an expensive prospect for a guy trying to help out the local food bank. Anyway the new Weiser locks don't use weiser latches any longer either, now they use a Kwikset latch that is stamped Weiser. How many companies does Black & Decker need to ruin before they become a monopoly anyhow?

[Paleo123]

I'm sure there must be some sort of technical term for the effect of monopolies on production quality. It is like this with many things these days....a bunch of mass produced garbage. And if you don't like it you go buy another company's mass produced garbage...except both companies are really subsidiaries of the same corporate conglomerate anyway. Check out Zeitgeist and films of a similar nature if you wanna know the truth. Now you got me riled up

[cledry]

Baldwin used to use Arrow keyway years ago when they were good. Later they changed to Schlage and cheapened up their entire line. Baldwin make nice forgings but combine them with cheap bolts, much the way Emtek does. Unless it is a mortise lock Baldwin has never been any great shakes. I can't imagine anyone complaining about Weiser being cheapened by turning into a Kwikset. Most Weisers have used plastic cylinders with plugs filed flat on the top creating a huge shear line. Weiser really only ever made one good deadbolt.

BTW, Black and Decker hasn't owned Baldwin, Kwikset or Weiser for some time now.

[zeke79]

Thank shipping jobs overseas for this. Even if a company is still made in USA they have to be able to compete with overseas companies. You want change? Petition for insurance requirements for lock standards like the uk does and buy American products that you can verify are fully made in USA.

Not preaching, but these are our options.

[zeke79]

Just to mention, I not only do this with locks but also things like light switches, outlets, breakers, chemicals I buy etc.

My exception is my backup generators. Since I can no longer get parts for my big backup us made onans on a regular basis I use Hondas chained together. I hate to admit that but the quality wins out on this when power goes out here as it does regularly.

[billdeserthills]

Baldwin used to use Arrow keyway years ago when they were good. Later they changed to Schlage and cheapened up their entire line. Baldwin make nice forgings but combine them with cheap bolts, much the way Emtek does. Unless it is a mortise lock Baldwin has never been any great shakes. I can't imagine anyone complaining about Weiser being cheapened by turning into a Kwikset. Most Weisers have used plastic cylinders with plugs filed flat on the top creating a huge shear line. Weiser really only ever made one good deadbolt.

BTW, Black and Decker hasn't owned Baldwin, Kwikset or Weiser for some time now.

Those cheap bolts you speak of used to be identical to the bolts Weiser used. The bolts Weiser uses now are the same as Kwikset uses. I have seen brand-new Emtek locks right out of the package that didn't work and there is no way an Emtek lock could rate even grade 3 but they charge like a grade 2 lock. I recently got my first look at a Fusion lockset. They had replaced a customer's old lock simply because the oil-rubbed bronze finish had rubbed off after years of service, which is normal wear & tear for an actual oil-rubbed bronze finish. I thought the Fusion locks were very well put together, instead of the large e clip that holds emtek knob/levers together the Fusion uses a large nut, which is why I will recommend their locks in the future

[cledry]

Just to mention, I not only do this with locks but also things like light switches, outlets, breakers, chemicals I buy etc.

My exception is my backup generators. Since I can no longer get parts for my big backup us made onans on a regular basis I use Hondas chained together. I hate to admit that but the quality wins out on this when power goes out here as it does regularly.

I don't buy US made if the foreign made item is better. I buy for quality. Sometimes that quality comes from Japan, sometimes from Germany, sometimes from the UK, sometimes from France and sometimes from the US. Then there are items that are simply not made in the US. When was the last time you saw a digital camera or a tablet, or a phone made in the US?

[cledry]

Baldwin used to use Arrow keyway years ago when they were good. Later they changed to Schlage and cheapened up their entire line. Baldwin make nice forgings but combine them with cheap bolts, much the way Emtek does. Unless it is a mortise lock Baldwin has never been any great shakes. I can't imagine anyone complaining about Weiser being cheapened by turning into a Kwikset. Most Weisers have used plastic cylinders with plugs filed flat on the top creating a huge shear line. Weiser really only ever made one good deadbolt.

BTW, Black and Decker hasn't owned Baldwin, Kwikset or Weiser for some time now.

Those cheap bolts you speak of used to be identical to the bolts Weiser used. The bolts Weiser uses now are the same as Kwikset uses. I have seen brand-new Emtek locks right out of the package that didn't work and there is no way an Emtek lock could rate even grade 3 but they charge like a grade 2 lock. I recently got my first look at a Fusion lockset. They had replaced a customer's old lock simply because the oil-rubbed bronze finish had rubbed off after years of service, which is normal wear & tear for an actual oil-rubbed bronze finish. I thought the Fusion locks were very well put together, instead of the large e clip that holds emtek knob/levers together the Fusion uses a large nut, which is why I will recommend their locks in the future

Weiser had two grades of bolts. The better one was also used by Falcon. Baldwin used the cheaper ones. With Baldwin and Emtek you are paying for the castings and forgings, the looks, not for the quality of the locks themselves.

Which wholesalers sell Fusion? I only see retail dealers listed?

[billdeserthills]

Cledry, I wish I knew as the Fusion line of locks look very well made

[jeffmoss26]

The dealer locator for my area shows a few supply houses..one of which is plumbing and decorative hardware so they do sell to the public, but the others are wholesale only.
http://www.fusionhardware.com/dealerloc ... cator.aspx

[victorylocksmith]

even worse still, is when you stumble upon Baldwins that have kwikset smart keyways. i dealth with a brand new baldwin kw smart key lock and it is garbage. the second time i rekeyed it, it jammed. before that even, the first time i rekeyed it, it didnt recognize the key after a few uses. absolute garbage! eventually i just gave up and had to use the kwikset reset tool.

[gswimfrk]

I'm surprised to hear that Emteks were of bad quality. I picked up a few last month and it was all metallic hardware, no plastic. The bolts were actually comparable to the medeco bolt thicknesses. It may have been old stock from a few years ago before they changed the quality.

Don't get me started on the poor quality of baldwins, kwiksets, and wisers. The other day, I did some super unscientific testing on the kwikset "grade 2" locks. In the lock position, I rotated it with all my might... it actually broke open. Can you believe that? I didn't disassemble it but it felt like the locking mechanism was plastic. Good thing I don't have those on my doors.

I want your opinion on the arrow Grade 2 series. How are they? I haven't really worked with them much.

What about the "consumer grade 1" Schlage B60 series? To me the bolt feel awfully loose, appears to have super high tolerances.

[victorylocksmith]

I'm surprised to hear that Emteks were of bad quality. I picked up a few last month and it was all metallic hardware, no plastic. The bolts were actually comparable to the medeco bolt thicknesses. It may have been old stock from a few years ago before they changed the quality.

Don't get me started on the poor quality of baldwins, kwiksets, and wisers. The other day, I did some super unscientific testing on the kwikset "grade 2" locks. In the lock position, I rotated it with all my might... it actually broke open. Can you believe that? I didn't disassemble it but it felt like the locking mechanism was plastic. Good thing I don't have those on my doors.

I want your opinion on the arrow Grade 2 series. How are they? I haven't really worked with them much.

What about the "consumer grade 1" Schlage B60 series? To me the bolt feel awfully loose, appears to have super high tolerances.

Not a fan of Emtek, generally I only use them when I cant figure out what the exact model and make a lock is. They make a large variety of locks and are decently priced and most importantly are supplied at a lot of locksmith suppliers for a far cheaper price than the other big names. That being said, I believe many time we pay for what we get. In this circumstance, much of the Emtek parts are actually decent such as the latch and, handles, etc., however the actual lock is not that great. I installed a very $$$ decorative lever handle Emtek mortise lock and it was not the greatest lock ever. It didnt have security pins or particularly great springs! For a lock that retails at $750, I probably couldve picked it with a snap gun in under a minute.

[billdeserthills]

I have actually taken new Emtek locks out of their box and found they were broken. Their quality control is even worse than Mexico's.
I haven't used the new Arrow grade 2 locks, but they look like the import grade 2 and they cost like the import junk as well. I think
Arrow is just looking to cheapen up their name & reputation, much as Assa-Abloy has with their ownership of Emtek. The problem
I fix the most often with Emtek is when the little clip that holds the whole lever or knobset together falls off. Then all the spacers
and shims the factory put in fall off as well and it can be a pain to find a replacement, especially if the lock was mounted in a hollow
metal door and all the "spare parts" are now residing at the bottom of the door. I like to replace the big "C" clip Emtek uses with a better
clip, usually one of the tension ring type that you remove with a spreader tool. Those stay on & I highly doubt they cost much more than
the clip the factory uses. Most Emtek deadbolts are a joke and on many, if you smack the top of the rose downward you can see the
"Crescent of Oppertunity" that is you will be looking at the top of the deadbolt latch, which is not very resistant to Mr. Icepick.

Thing that pisses me off about Emtek the most is any junky Kwikset lock that costs $12 is UL Listed as Grade 3 and an $80 Emtek lock
is just a pos, & not even a grade 3 POS either! Because UL doesn't make a crappy enough grade for the Emtek lock to reside in.