NEW AND FRUSTRATED!!!

[Erlstn]

I ordered a set of picks...they turn out to be broken key extractors so not exactly the picking tools I was expecting. That's what I get for venturing 3.99 for a set of tools. This morning I ordered a different set but they are not here so I made a few tools...a hook and a half diamond. Not sure if it's the tools or me but I cannot get a plug to turn. When I release the tension wrench (which is also handmade) I seem to hear anywhere from two to five clicking sounds. I assume these are the top pins dropping back into the plug, but I cannot get the plug to turn. Here is my question:
Again, maybe it's the tools, but how can you feel each pin individually. The tension wrench takes up a third of the keyway, leaving no room to move the tool up and down enough to get to each pin. Feeling the first one is obvious, but the second is a combination of the second pin and the first, and the same with the third, fourth and fifth. I find it impossible to feel each one independent of the others. What am I missing?
Thanks

[GWiens2001]

Read this. It is short and tells you the answers to your questions and many you have yet to ask!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jacqueline ... erkill.pdf

Password: evva3ks

Pictures of your picks would also help!

Gordon

[KPick]

I ordered a set of picks...they turn out to be broken key extractors so not exactly the picking tools I was expecting. That's what I get for venturing 3.99 for a set of tools. This morning I ordered a different set but they are not here so I made a few tools...a hook and a half diamond. Not sure if it's the tools or me but I cannot get a plug to turn. When I release the tension wrench (which is also handmade) I seem to hear anywhere from two to five clicking sounds. I assume these are the top pins dropping back into the plug, but I cannot get the plug to turn. Here is my question:
Again, maybe it's the tools, but how can you feel each pin individually. The tension wrench takes up a third of the keyway, leaving no room to move the tool up and down enough to get to each pin. Feeling the first one is obvious, but the second is a combination of the second pin and the first, and the same with the third, fourth and fifth. I find it impossible to feel each one independent of the others. What am I missing?
Thanks

Welcome to the forum Erlstn. Well it sounds like you're having a beginner's fit here. To be honest, it sounds like you have a lock with a smaller keyway, so I advice you to make a top of the keyway tension wrench. Well you make one by getting your hands on a thin piece of metal like a windshield wiper blade, or something similar, then you bend 1/4 of an inch over to a 90 degree angle, and voila, tension wrench minion!. Not but seriously, it works.

Secondly, you are worried about not feeling the pins in the champers right? of course this is difficult at best when you're first starting, but all of us have harnessed the ability to do this after a amount of time (a week to a month) depending on how much effort you put into learning the skill of feeling the pins.

Okay so let me get to the point now. Since well... I made my point on the expected timeline to learn according to the paragraph above. How do you feel the pins? well let me get started by telling you that you put in a tension wrench in and then insert your pick in without applying any tension.

After that, you go in and then press up on the pins with great attentiveness. When I mean great attentiveness, I mean very carefully, like if you were trying to remove a bullet from a bullet wound.Try to learn as you go. This is very important because you need to understand that it's not easy, but don't give it because it's very rewarding once you get the hang of it, hence the reason why I'm still picking after 4 years.

[Erlstn]

Thanks for the help...not sure what the difference is between a regular tension wrench and a top of the keyway tension wrench...definitely think you are right that that would help so I will have to make one. I wonder if my tool is making this harder too. Anyway, Thanks again for the help, and I will continue to pick at this thing and figure it out. It is a very small keyway (Papaiz) so I am probably learning on a difficult one, but that's ok.

[KPick]

The difference Erlstn is in the position it is used. The top of the keyway tension is used on the top section of the lock. The other option (out of two options: top of the keyway, and bottom of the keyway) is bottom of the keyway. Basically the term defines on which position it is used. (but theres only 2 positions)

Bottom of the Keyway:


Top of the keyway tension: credit goes to LocksmithArmy for this one

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for the help...not sure what the difference is between a regular tension wrench and a top of the keyway tension wrench...definitely think you are right that that would help so I will have to make one. I wonder if my tool is making this harder too. Anyway, Thanks again for the help, and I will continue to pick at this thing and figure it out. It is a very small keyway (Papaiz) so I am probably learning on a difficult one, but that's ok.

Here are 24 lock picking lessons on video that will explain so much you'll come back to the forum an expert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVSL0li ... F86F3A1F85

Enjoy!

Squelchtone

[Erlstn]

Yes KPick I understood the functional difference but I meant that I did not understand the physical difference between the two...I made my only tension wrench and it works decently as a bottom keyway wrench but does not do a great job a grabbing the top of the keyway so clearly there is a difference in how they are made. I will have to research it and make one that works. Thanks again!

[KPick]

No problem man. I'm here to help if you need it. Don't hesitate to ask. I like helping.

[Squelchtone]

Yes KPick I understood the functional difference but I meant that I did not understand the physical difference between the two...I made my only tension wrench and it works decently as a bottom keyway wrench but does not do a great job a grabbing the top of the keyway so clearly there is a difference in how they are made. I will have to research it and make one that works. Thanks again!

Ok, before you race into lock picking mode, watch those videos I linked, and take the time to learn the parts of a lock. Once you look into the keyway, you will immediately realize why a normal bottom of keyway wrench does not work well in top of keyway. I'll spoil the surprise here: It doesn't work well as a top of keyway wrench because it cannot be inserted all the way and you dont get a good leverage/rotation on the plug. This is because the lock pins that move up and down when a key or pick is inserted are right there and in order to tension a lock using the Top of Keyway (TOK) method, you need a tension wrench that is about half or even 1/3 of the size of a normal wrench's tip that inserts into the lock's keyway, so that it goes into the top of the keyway but doesnt touch the first key pin.

**I'm actually not a fan of how the person in the top of keyway example photo is holding their finger on the wrench, that's not how I would typically teach folks how to press on the wrench.

Here's an example photo I made some time ago:
http://highsecurityconsulting.com/ways-to-tension.jpg

It may be good if you can get your hands on a cheap deadbolt from Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Kmart, etc, spend $10-$15 on it, and you can take it apart and learn all the parts and how they interact.

and remember, watch those videos,
Squelchtone

[KPick]

Good advice Squelchtone, and that's why you are Admin.

[GWiens2001]

Good advice Squelchtone, and that's why you are Admin.

That and a hefty bribe in the right pockets.

Gordon

[KPick]

Oh no please lol. Don't misinterpret me as a briber it's just a compliment that's all.

[Squelchtone]

Oh no please lol. Don't misinterpret me as a briber it's just a compliment that's all.

And on a purely unrelated note, I announce our newest Moderator, KPick!




just kidding, the $30 bucks hasn't hit my Paypal account yet.

Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

Yes KPick I understood the functional difference but I meant that I did not understand the physical difference between the two...I made my only tension wrench and it works decently as a bottom keyway wrench but does not do a great job a grabbing the top of the keyway so clearly there is a difference in how they are made. I will have to research it and make one that works. Thanks again!

With the keyway I'm thinking of the bottom is almost twice the width of the top & a thick tension
wrench will be blocking your access to the pins. Also have you lubricated your lock yet?
I think you should make a top tension wrench, the lock you are picking has a small keyway rather similar to a Master padlock. Take a piece of wire hanger, cut and bend an "L" shape. Make the shorter leg 1/2 inch long and the longer leg 2 inches long get a hammer and a flat place to smash the shorter part of the "L" the back of a vise is the best, but you can use concrete if you find a place you won't get in trouble for breaking up a bit. Smash the "L" until the wrench fits the upper part of the keyway securely and then you may have to file the thickness of the tip of the wrench, if it gets in the way of you raking the tumblers. You can also bend the other side of your new tension wrench & make a thinner side for dif locks. I really prefer this type of wrench as it has it's blade along the axis which keeps the wrench out of the way of the keyhole. Also You can make many dif sizes.


an old locksmith friend showed me this named Frank Polish
he smoked camel regulars (no filter) until the day he died from
lung cancer Frank used to have a locksmith school back in the long ago

[Erlstn]

Actually that is exactly how I made my current tension wrench but I used a small anchor screw, which is already bent into a 90 and I hammered the short part of it flat. Works decent but looking forward to receiving my actual tools to see if there is a difference.

Squelchtone....thanks for your help...I have already learned the basics of how tubulars work...I have had many apart as I own a hardware store and rekey/master rekey locksets. I just want to learn the correct way to pick locks and the whole issue of isolating pins with a pick tool is troubling to me. Just seems that you cannot feel the fourth and fifth pins without also feeling the tensions of the first three...probly just a feel thing that I will learn as I pick. Thanks for all of the help and I will be reading the article that you recommended after this lock drives me crazy tonight.