NEW AND FRUSTRATED!!!

[Erlstn]

Squelchtone - another question - in your picture of four different wrench positions you have one that fits into the bottom of the keyway horizontally (bottom right picture). In the picture it says that is incorrect...I was wondering why that is incorrect? In my case with my current lockset that wont open, it seems that would be perfect.

[KPick]

Good advice Squelchtone, and that's why you are Admin.

That and a hefty bribe in the right pockets.

Gordon

Good one

[Divinorum]

Squelchtone - another question - in your picture of four different wrench positions you have one that fits into the bottom of the keyway horizontally (bottom right picture). In the picture it says that is incorrect...I was wondering why that is incorrect? In my case with my current lockset that wont open, it seems that would be perfect.

I believe it's incorrect because when you apply tension from that position the tension wrench will get bound up on the cylinder and will not effectively apply tension on the plug.

[Squelchtone]

Squelchtone - another question - in your picture of four different wrench positions you have one that fits into the bottom of the keyway horizontally (bottom right picture). In the picture it says that is incorrect...I was wondering why that is incorrect? In my case with my current lockset that wont open, it seems that would be perfect.

I believe it's incorrect because when you apply tension from that position the tension wrench will get bound up and will not effectively apply tension on the plug.

ding ding ding ding. yep.. friction. the tension wrench should sit in the plug, and if possible, not touch the shell of the lock. Sometimes a keyway will be wide and just when you think you have the wrench at the bottom of the keyway, and it ends up camming out like in that bottom right photo.

[Erlstn]

Well...I believe you but I don't quite understand it. Seems like if your wrench fits correctly, you would be applying the same tension whether in "horizontally" of "vertically"...oh well, I will just take your word for it. Thanks Again

[billdeserthills]

Maybe you would like using a mechanical picking gun, like I use. The main trick
in using it seems to be keeping the blade exactly in line with every pin in the lock
at one time, as you squeeze the trigger. I find I successfully pick locks much better
now if I start out using the pick gun and after a few clicks, switch to a manual pick
and give the pins a rake.

[critmass235]

top +bottom at the same time can fit like that

[Squelchtone]

Well...I believe you but I don't quite understand it. Seems like if your wrench fits correctly, you would be applying the same tension whether in "horizontally" of "vertically"...oh well, I will just take your word for it. Thanks Again

imagine a muscle car with it's hood open. the engine is running and you pull on the throttle linkage to rev the engine. You may notice because of the torque created one side of the car will dip more than the other. This is bottom of keyway tensioning. You're turning the plug, but on a small scale it isnt turning on its axis like a drum, its more like twisting a wet rag to get all the water out.

With top of keyway tensioning, you're closer to the center of the plug, so the turning force is more.. "balanaced" like a drum would turn, but you have the side effect of lots of space for your pick because there is no longer a wrench in the bottom of the keyway robbing you of working space.

hope that was understandable...
Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

Actually that is exactly how I made my current tension wrench but I used a small anchor screw, which is already bent into a 90 and I hammered the short part of it flat. Works decent but looking forward to receiving my actual tools to see if there is a difference.

Squelchtone....thanks for your help...I have already learned the basics of how tubulars work...I have had many apart as I own a hardware store and rekey/master rekey locksets. I just want to learn the correct way to pick locks and the whole issue of isolating pins with a pick tool is troubling to me. Just seems that you cannot feel the fourth and fifth pins without also feeling the tensions of the first three...probly just a feel thing that I will learn as I pick. Thanks for all of the help and I will be reading the article that you recommended after this lock drives me crazy tonight.

Have you tried using a hook pick? Then you can reach under the first few pins
and only push up the 4th or 5th pins by themselves, as long as your tension tool
is in the top of the keyway. You can't angle the hook pick enough out of the way
if you put the tension wrench at the bottom of the keyway.

[Erlstn]

Yes I was using a hook pick...a homemade one. As it turns out, "someone" made it too big. I received my actual tools (SouthOrd) and realized that the hook was supposed to be smaller. I am happy to report that I got my two sided Papaiz picked finally. Really silly one to try to learn on since they are loaded with spools but it was for a customer. I have a few Kwiksets laying around that I am going to practice on next...expecting them to be a breeze but you never know.

[billdeserthills]

The Kwiksets should be easier, the factory assembles them with beveled bottom pins. Apparently cylinders constructed of pot metal need more tolerance built into them, the plugs are a little looser fitting inside too
HPC and other manufacturers do sell large hook picks so the must be good for something

[Erlstn]

Well I have a very disappointing thing to report...I had both sides of the Papaiz picked. The have brass or copper retaining rings that you have to actually bend to get off. During that process, both sides spun back to center and I am right back where I started. So angry at myself. I did take both of those rings off though so next time they will pick and then slide right off.

[billdeserthills]

That's too bad Eristn, but it's just part of the fun,
I'm sure it will be only a momentary setback for you.
Did you have anything to use as a follower to push out those cylinders with?

[Erlstn]

Yes I did...I have a Kwikset and Schlage rekey set but neither of the followers fit this Papaiz so I found a piece of tubing that works perfect. I have them both picked again...took about a half hour to get them both open. It shows that I am making progress because the first time took a lot longer.