arrow locks?

[victorylocksmith]

ive been thinking about ordering some arrow locks to sell to people who want better stuff than the typical locks sold at big box stores and yet cheaper than the $$$ medeco, primus, mulTlock. would it be better if i just stuck with higher end typical SC and KW keyway locks or would it be worthwhile for a beginner like myself to start to branch out towards something like arrow or schlage everest?

i pretty much know nothing about arrow locks or everest locks. do they use a different keyway and do they require a whole different pinning kit? i notice that a lot of arrow locks are ICORE as well, and quite frankly, i dont know a thing about ICORE locks at all.

[MSL]

Not sure about Everest but my universal pin kit has a chart on it for Arrow locks, and I know I have a bunch of arrow blanks but have never actually seen an arrow lock used anywhere.

But if you want to learn about Arrow stuff you can sign up for Arrow-Medeco University which is online and free (but they do have in person stuff too sometimes). There is a whole section of arrow product classes. I took a couple, its quick and easy and you get to print out certificates afterwards and if you have a shop I guess you can hang them up and make it all all fancy and high falootin'.

And supposedly you can get some kind of professional Medeco Certified Technician credential if you take all of the medeco courses in a certain sequence. I've taken a few of those and they're good for an overview, and free so the price is right. I guess getting some kind of medeco certification would be good if you wanted to sell yourself in the high security lock biz.

[url]medeco.exceedlms.com/[/url]

[jeffmoss26]

Arrow has its own stock keyway using the AR1 blank with its own depths and spaces, and then they have SFIC with standard and restricted keyways.
Schlage Everest uses its own keyways, the C family (C123, C145 etc) same depths and spaces as Schlage C keyway. The newer system is the Everest 29 and the keyways are S123, S145 and the specs are the same.

[billdeserthills]

Arrow locks are built very much like schlage locks are, just slightly less expensive. You can buy arrow in their own AR-1 keyway, or an sc-1 keyway for their residential/commercial series. I don't stock many Arrow locks because my clients like me to match the hardware they currently have & most of them already have schlage & kwikset hardware. Buy and stock what you see when you are in your client's homes & businesses. That way you will be able to offer your clients the same looking hardware they already own, instead of making everything different.

[billdeserthills]

The Everest locks you speak of are just Schlage locks in a grade 1. I buy the Schlage deadbolts I use in the B560 series and for a couple of odd colors the B 300 series.The only real difference between the Schlage Everest is the price has doubled and the deadbolt latch is thicker. Not worth the money if you ask me. In fact the bolts on the 560 line of schlage deadbolts are the same thickness, which makes them difficult to install on many security screen doors as many are too thin to accomadate the thicker bolt. I have a bunch of schlage B160 bolts left and I use them on these thinner doors all the time.
The pins you need to key Arrow and most other residential & commercial hardware are in your standard pin kit.

[jeffmoss26]

Everest has patented keyways and a check pin. I forgot to mention that in my original post.
Otherwise the hardware is the same.

[victorylocksmith]

I currently have my a jimmy rigged pin kit with kwikset pins 1-6 and schlage pins 0-10. Am I going to have to get other different pins for the Everest or Arrow locks? I want to really get this stuff down before I jump into figuring out ICore locks

[Sinifar]

SFIC, or small format interchangeable core locks are a specialty. Until you have a solid and I mean a really solid handle on conventional locks, leave this one alone. There is the "math" for A-2 and A-4 pining which is different, and until you get that, and get it down solid, you will not be able to work with these locks. ALSO you cannot take a core apart to pin it. Your cuts have to be very exact and our math for the load of the pin sets has to be exactly on, or this won't work. Forget any duplicator for making these keys. They have to be made on one of the punches, or a Framon to get the EXACT cut in the EXACT location. It is a very fussy lock to work with.

LFIC, or large format interchangeable cores is, in Schlage, and Yale very similar to pinning the standard cylinders. However, you will need to generate the control key which is a longer key blank and has a specific cut on the end to operate the control mechanism. If you thought that SFIC math was bad, you will get into real trouble with Emhart - Corbin - Russwin LFIC cores. Not to expound on this here, but know, even after 45 years in the biz, I still get out my cylinder manual and work out the math for this difficult lock. Sargent and Medico locks are similar to the Emhart types, but again, you need a reference to follow to get it right.

NOTHING is worse than snapping the core together and then finding it won't work, and now you get that thing apart.

Arrow locks getting back to the main subject are just another lock, and another set of keying / cutting specifications. It is no different than any other. IF you don't have a universal pin kit in either .005 or preferable .003 then the keying will be tough. Filing any lock to make it work smooth is a bad idea.

Finally, since most of you don't know this - BEST from 1946 thru 1989 used Arrow locks subcontracted for them. Look at the retainer on any Best lock thru this era, it is the same as Arrow. ALSO Arrow made the keys and cores for Best thru the same era. This is why 1C - 1D are used for their IC alone. the Best A thru Q sections are common, as is the TA - TF sections. Into the W and you are in another league.

Kaba Peaks made the Best cylinders for them and they are the ones you won't be able to get for further replacements.

Just some information -- and advise.

Sinifar

[jeffmoss26]

I currently have my a jimmy rigged pin kit with kwikset pins 1-6 and schlage pins 0-10. Am I going to have to get other different pins for the Everest or Arrow locks? I want to really get this stuff down before I jump into figuring out ICore locks

Same pins for Schlage Everest, you will need different sizes for Arrow.
http://www.locksafesystems.com/depth_an ... _and_Depth

[averagejoe]

Finally, since most of you don't know this - BEST from 1946 thru 1989 used Arrow locks subcontracted for them. Look at the retainer on any Best lock thru this era, it is the same as Arrow. ALSO Arrow made the keys and cores for Best thru the same era. This is why 1C - 1D are used for their IC alone. the Best A thru Q sections are common, as is the TA - TF sections. Into the W and you are in another league.

Kaba Peaks made the Best cylinders for them and they are the ones you won't be able to get for further replacements.

Sinifar

What do you mean by "Look at the retainer on any Best lock through this era"?

[Sinifar]

Instead of two cotter pins to hold the cover on a cylinderical lock, they use a wire retainer. This thing goes thru one, then curves around and goes thru the other hole. It an Arrow exclusive.