Need to Re-key an OLD floor safe

[Squelchtone]

While looking for information online I came across this site and saw the topic about an "old floor safe". I realize the post is a year old and the problem has already been solved. But others may still be interested or want to learn more. Here are pics of the entire unit including original keys, please view and leave your comments. http://my.inbox.com/photos/sailforsale/index.aspx

Thank you for taking the time to sign up and post this information =)

welcome to our forum,
Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

well all done! I have 4 keys that open the lock. Thank you for your help. Now I have work to do. Any ideas on how i can use the safe lid?

Why not take it to the welder & see if he has a large piece of pipe the head will fit into. Then have him make you a safe body for your safe head. Next step is to rent a jackhammer from hope depot & install your new safe in your home

[The_Sheriff]

So glad that I found this thread, and I am going to REVIVE it yet again a year later!

I have the exact same model that Squelchtone posted, the Double Door in Floor Model A - just picked it up from a thrift shop for $50 - locked. Looks like it has not been open in decades (doubt there is anything inside)

I have not opened it yet, just ordered blanks (SG89's safety deposit blanks) - ideally I want to keep it in tact to use...it is such a beautiful piece of iron!

My question is how should I go about trying to open this lock, does anyone have a schematic or more information on the SG4163 from early paperwork? - I saw the cut depths and information on an earlier reply but am still a bit unsure if that is the exact same lock.

I am mechanically inclined and have done some basic key making - but this will be first key of this type...I just want to be sure I am going about it the right way.

Can anyone offer me step by step instructions on how to go about using a blank and cutting it to try and crack this safe (I have access to several higher quality machine tools, grinders, dremel, ect so I can make fine cuts on the key)...I just need to know the process more or less.

I took it to 3 shops in Los Angeles and they all say it's not worth it (one said they wont work on them because the in a floor safe company went out of business due to people losing their fingers on the doors), going to take them too much time ($300-$600 to open it, give me a break!), and that I won't be able to open it myself...I'd like to prove them all wrong.

[Squelchtone]

going to take them too much time ($300-$600 to open it, give me a break!), and that I won't be able to open it myself...I'd like to prove them all wrong.

That price is reasonable anywhere in the USA for the labor and knowledge required to do the job (I think its a common price range for anything that has to do with safe opening). It's not as easy as whipping out a hand file or a cordless drill and opening it in 5 minutes. You're about to find a new hobby and spend a lot of time and effort just to prove them wrong, but you're welcome to try.

We wont however get into drilling those locks or pulling the noses in open forum, as detailed instructions can be misused by anyone with Google who is up to no good and finds this thread, so we will have to limit it to talking about key blanks, and maybe impressioning, if this sort of lock can be impressioned, which I don't know, someone else will have to chime in.

dont lose your fingers!
Squelchtone

[The_Sheriff]

going to take them too much time ($300-$600 to open it, give me a break!), and that I won't be able to open it myself...I'd like to prove them all wrong.

That price is reasonable anywhere in the USA for the labor and knowledge required to do the job (I think its a common price range for anything that has to do with safe opening). It's not as easy as whipping out a hand file or a cordless drill and opening it in 5 minutes. You're about to find a new hobby and spend a lot of time and effort just to prove them wrong, but you're welcome to try.

We wont however get into drilling those locks or pulling the noses in open forum, as detailed instructions can be misused by anyone with Google who is up to no good and finds this thread, so we will have to limit it to talking about key blanks, and maybe impressioning, if this sort of lock can be impressioned, which I don't know, someone else will have to chime in.

dont lose your fingers!
Squelchtone

Thanks for the information Squelch - much appreciated...I realize this will not be easy, and I have done some key making on much simpler lever locks that were fully open and accessible...so I know this will be quite the challenge.

While no drilling talk can go into open forum for the lock itself, if anyone has drilled one of these and knows the steel thickness (sides / bottom) I considered that for getting access first and then just welding back up. PM me?

I would like to know about impressioning, if anyone has done or tried on these locks.

Also, are there any other pins on these doors besides the main lock pin? (secondary pins to thwart people trying to open it ect.) Something I should also take into consideration.

Appreciate all your guys useful knowledge, This safe is just a cool piece of history and I'd like to keep the locks intact as they sound to be valuable and hard to come by! Just such a neat looking safe, reminds me of a tank shell or something. Too cool.

[billdeserthills]

If it is an S & G 4140 - 4163 lock, it is a 7 lever lock, with 6 depths.

The tip to the throat cut is .924, and the blank width is .379, and the throat cut is .295 - width dependent on the horn of the lock.

Tip to first cut is .215, and it is .075 between cuts. Cuts are .075 wide each, my book says to use a .030 and .045 slotter together. Or you could use a standard S & G slotter (.055) and make it a bit wider.

0 - .377, 1- .337, 2- .297, 3- .257, 4- .217, 5- .177, 6- .137

If you get a blank, you can file the thing by working one lever at a time, watching the "window" where the fence on the bolt goes into the levers.

Sinifar

Hard to know exactly where the window is through that door