kw10 key in kw1 lock?

[knowspicker2]

I'm sure this has been asked or explored before, but I couldn't seem to find or locate the discussion, so I'll pose the problem again. I am working on a mixed-use commercial and residential project; the property has a few retail shops and some apartment units. I was thinking of installing kw10 locks in the commercial shops and kw1 locks in the residences.

I wonder if it is possible for these two keys systems to share a common lock. By that I mean, I would like to master key the shops with kw10 and the apartments with kw1. Furthermore, for common areas, I would like to maison key a couple of gates so that both the shop owners and apartment dwellers can use their respective keys to open the common area gates.

As I understand it, a kw1 and a kw10 share the same distance from tip to top shoulder, but the bottom shoulder of a kw10 key is offset more deeply, so that a kw10 key can fit into a kw1 cylinder, but a kw1 key cannot fully fit into a kw10 cylinder. Is it possible to take advantage of this property to install 5-pin kw1 locks on the common area gates, so that a 6-pin kw10 key can open those common gates as well as the particular shop the key was cut for?

[cledry]

Yes, you can do as you say. Neither is really much of a commercial lock but it can be done just as you suppose.

[Divinorum]

If the kw1 and Kw10 keys are the same length from tip to shoulder and the 6 pin kw10 key fits in the 5 pin kw1 then yes I do not see any reasons why it would not work. Although Kwikset is really not recommended for commercial applications.

[cledry]

Maison keying Kwikset is a recipe for disaster. They are a loose lock, made from pot metal and have a 1 step drop. You might as well leave the locks unlocked because any key in the neighbourhood will likely work. I prefer to add access control for such applications.

[knowspicker2]

I too share many of the concerns that several of you have indicated about the security of Kwikset locks. The reason why I am considering Kwikset is one of economy. There are only a few retail stores while all 2 dozen apartments already have Kwikset KW1 locks installed. I thought replacing the retail stores with KW10 locks would be cost-effective.

Are there any other higher security locks that are backward compatible with Kwikset KW1 in the sense that a key from one of these locks could could also be cut to open a KW1 cylinder? I thought that a KW10 with 6-pins would provide an extra measure of security, but perhaps that amount is insufficient.

Are there any solutions that would provide security yet still be cost-effective?

[cledry]

I too share many of the concerns that several of you have indicated about the security of Kwikset locks. The reason why I am considering Kwikset is one of economy. There are only a few retail stores while all 2 dozen apartments already have Kwikset KW1 locks installed. I thought replacing the retail stores with KW10 locks would be cost-effective.

Are there any other higher security locks that are backward compatible with Kwikset KW1 in the sense that a key from one of these locks could could also be cut to open a KW1 cylinder? I thought that a KW10 with 6-pins would provide an extra measure of security, but perhaps that amount is insufficient.

Are there any solutions that would provide security yet still be cost-effective?

When you MK a lock you lose some security. Compound that with a poor quality lock and you make matters worse. Add maison keying and you might as well leave the door open. Based on what you are telling us you are masterkeying @ 24 Kwiksets on apartments, these are existing locks so will already have wear on them. Plus who masterkeys apartments? Around here it is a liability issue. Most apartment complexes either have a key box with keys secured in them or rely on a locksmith to access the apartments in an emergency.

What is currently on the commercial space? Around here commercial space typically consists of one ore more storefronts, and a door or two with a single cylinder deadbolt and a grade 1 or grade 2 lever.

You cannot as far as I know get any of these except the deadbolt and possibly Kwikset might still offer a grade 2 lever. They used to have the Winston but that was a 6 pin and not KW10 if I recall correctly.

Things you need to know. You will not find KW10 compatible hardware for mortise locks, exit hardware etc.

Other things to consider.

The levers as required by ADA should be free on the inside when locked to meet life safety codes, most Kwikset are not. Grade 3 hardware is not acceptable in commercial applications if you want to avoid grief with your customers.

[knowspicker2]

I too share many of the concerns that several of you have indicated about the security of Kwikset locks. The reason why I am considering Kwikset is one of economy. There are only a few retail stores while all 2 dozen apartments already have Kwikset KW1 locks installed. I thought replacing the retail stores with KW10 locks would be cost-effective.

Are there any other higher security locks that are backward compatible with Kwikset KW1 in the sense that a key from one of these locks could could also be cut to open a KW1 cylinder? I thought that a KW10 with 6-pins would provide an extra measure of security, but perhaps that amount is insufficient.

Are there any solutions that would provide security yet still be cost-effective?

When you MK a lock you lose some security. Compound that with a poor quality lock and you make matters worse. Add maison keying and you might as well leave the door open. Based on what you are telling us you are masterkeying @ 24 Kwiksets on apartments, these are existing locks so will already have wear on them. Plus who masterkeys apartments? Around here it is a liability issue. Most apartment complexes either have a key box with keys secured in them or rely on a locksmith to access the apartments in an emergency.

In California, it is common to master key apartments, rather than have the apartment manager deal with dozens of keys. There is no liability issue that I am aware of.

What is currently on the commercial space? Around here commercial space typically consists of one ore more storefronts, and a door or two with a single cylinder deadbolt and a grade 1 or grade 2 lever.

Right now, the retails stores are locked with a Schlage. It looks like an SC1 key. I don't know how to tell the difference between the various grades of locks from inspection.

Things you need to know. You will not find KW10 compatible hardware for mortise locks, exit hardware etc.

Then that pretty much defeats the idea that I had in mind. It would be too expensive to change all the locks in the apartments, so the retail shops were the only option. If KW10 locks are not available for commercial stores then the current locks will have to remain.