Key machine question

[MikeTheLocksmith]

Hello all,

I have been a locksmith for a little less than a year now. I have been making keys by using a duplicator and depth keys. This has caused me to turn down some jobs. I have made enough money to invest in a key machine, but I am not sure which would be best. I am operating 100% mobile because I cannot afford a store front. With the business being completely mobile which key machine would you suggest?

I was also wondering where I could find a waffer set for can locks/screen doors etc.

Thank you,
Mike

[1mrchristopher]

Mike, that question is a bit like walking into the middle of a car show and asking in a loud voice: "Hey, which is better: Ford, Dodge or Chevrolet?" Most of it is going to boil down to individual preference, but everyone has their own opinions on why certain machines from certain manufacturers are better. I code cut on a HPC Blitz in my mobile unit, and for my facilities work at the county, I have an HPC Switch Blitz, which code cuts and also duplicates. Both are a pleasure to use. I have never had the opportunity to do any cutting on a Framon, but my understanding is that they are capable of even more exacting accuracy. If you know anyone in your area that has a code machine, ask for a demonstration, and the opportunity to try it out. One thing I'll say for the Blitz, once you get the hang of it, code cutting is just about as fast as duplicating. The Framon may be the same way, I just haven't had the opportunity to use one.

[MikeTheLocksmith]

I understand that the question may be a bit... Opinionated. I was more looking for those opinions though. I have little money as coming by work has been difficult. Therefore, I am doing my best to try and by something that will last and code cut a large number of keys. I was also thinking about getting a key punch so that electric is not a problem. I have heard that you can switch out the motors to work off the lighter in the car, but it seems a punch would be easier til I can get an inverter or a direct link to battery.

Anyway, thank you for the info. I will talk to someone in ALOA and see if I can tryout some key machines. I will also talk to a local store front I have been working with.

Thank you,
Mike

[billdeserthills]

I have an HPC 9160 Speedex in my shop and also an HPC 9120 Speedex in my van. I really like both of them, they have both been working at least 15 years now. In Fact, when I first got them they came with 2-way jaws but I have upgraded the one in the van to a 4-way jaw. The 9120 I bought with a 12 volt DC motor already on it from the factory and that motor lasted about 8 years, before I upgraded it to a Keedex K-5 heavy duty 12 volt motor. I have cut many thousands of keys on the two Speedex machines and I would buy them both again as they have been good for my business. However you would have to use depth keys to cut by code and IDK if you want to do that?

[cledry]

I would go with the HPC 1200 in any variety and run an inverter. We run 8 of them and they do OK as long as you don't bump them. I had a Speedex once and thought it was the biggest POS I ever tried, except a Foley Belsaw that a friend tried to sell me. For a duplicator I prefer Silca Bravo machines. However as you can see some people like the HPC Speedex, they are very inexpensive too.

I have used a Framon code machine and while it is very accurate it isn't as fast or convenient as the HPC 1200.

[hjlocks]

The downside to a punch is that it limits the blanks you can cut with it. It doesn't really give you much more options than depth keys on a duplicator. You should consider if you want to get into automotive/transponder keys also as that requires a significantly more robust (and expensive) machine than a normal code cutter.

[2octops]

We run 1200's and Bravo III's with inverters in our service vans and cut thousands of keys each year on them. We do have to calibrate the 1200's each year or so but have never calibrated a Bravo in at least 15 years.

I've tried Rytan and Framon and just was not a fan of either.

[Warbs87]

I have had my business going for under 6 months now and use an HPC Blitz out of the back of my Ford Escape for mobile jobs. Its a great machine haven't had a single problem with it. I bought the extreme blitz package so you get the code source and masterking software that I use pretty much daily now. Well worth the investment.

[GWiens2001]

That CodeSource software is fantastic. Unfortunately, my copy is 7 years old. Gonna have to ante up and get a new copy one of these days. When I get a used Blitz (probably in early July), will be able to print out cards for it.

Gordon

[cledry]

That CodeSource software is fantastic. Unfortunately, my copy is 7 years old. Gonna have to ante up and get a new copy one of these days. When I get a used Blitz (probably in early July), will be able to print out cards for it.

Gordon

Codesonline also will let you print cards for those that you don't have.

[Sinifar]

A key machine is as good as the operator. With all the ages before the mast, I can tell you it makes really no big difference as long as the thing runs on the exact.

We have had people come in here and try to use our gear and sometimes the keys work and sometimes they don't. Having said all that --

We have a Curtis # 9 for general shop cutting. This cuts everything but the newest keys, and does do an excellent job on flat keys - bit keys including the end cuts. AN HPC Speedex which works well for double sided keys grabbing the center. A JET 2000 for the high security keys and it also works wonders on things which you would not believe, including working as a Keyway King and making up odd ball keys by milling in the sides where needed. I know "pirate" keys -- we don't do that for the public however, but every so often we get in a key from one of our industrial accounts which I just can't find, so I find something close and then make that into the key. Trust me it works.

In the shop also is a Framon # 2, just the most universal machine you every saw, and it makes everything from standard keys, to Medeco, Emhart High Security, to safe deposit keys and it works well.

ON the road, we have a Foley 200 due to the sewing machine motor, an HPC 1200 punch, an A-1 IC punch, and a Hurdy Gurty ACE key unit. Mostly on the road we use the hand powered units and they work well. There is also now the Curtis 15 punch back on the road, as with the slow times today we went back to making the odd car keys, and we also have the stuff to program the transponder keys.

In the end, it is experience which makes the difference. Back in the early 70's we went with an Ilco 8 dynamite and depth keys for the road unit. Back then it worked okay. Working with depth keys is an art, and if you have to cut the new sidewinder keys you will be using depth keys for the originals. So don't think that having a fancy machine will work miracles, there still is the universal truth -- Experience is the best teacher.

Just my two bits worth, your mileage may vary, just what an old time shop is running in house and on the road.

Sinifar

[cledry]

It depends on volume of keys being cut too. A Bravo is going to cut keys fast all day long with almost zero down time. It is nothing for each of our machines to cut a 1000 keys a day. However on the road we don't need anything like this because the volume is low. Here we use Curtis automatics, mainly because they are compact when the cover is removed, plus we don't do automotive at all. An automatic machine allows you less inconsistency.

[MikeTheLocksmith]

Hum, I can say that I have recieved a ton of information, but I am still unsure. It seems that most code machines will get the job done, so it boils down to personal preference. I cannot help wondering what the limitations are. For example, the Automotive industry is something I would like to get into. I am currently in the process of learning the basics, and I will expand from there. I have a feeling it will take a little bit to learn what is all needed for Automotive lol.

I think I have decided to get an HPC 1200 Orignal Blitz. I figure I can get the add-on wheel/cards later on as the Blitz Extreme is a little to spendy at the moment. What are the limitations of the 1200 Orignal Blitz in terms of automotive, commerical, and residental keys? I figure it will not cut high security keys or lazor keys. But will the 1200 Orignal Blitz do me well as I continue with this business?

Thanks,
Mike

[GWiens2001]

I think I have decided to get an HPC 1200 Orignal Blitz. I figure I can get the add-on wheel/cards later on as the Blitz Extreme is a little to spendy at the moment. What are the limitations of the 1200 Orignal Blitz in terms of automotive, commerical, and residental keys? I figure it will not cut high security keys or lazor keys. But will the 1200 Orignal Blitz do me well as I continue with this business?

Would think that it would serve you very well. As for the extra cards - code software, including some online services, will allow you to print the cards you need. The extra wheel - you can buy it anytime.

Commercial and residential keys - you can cut them. Even Medeco if you get the cutting wheel. Automotive - depends on the key. Hear you can get tubular key adaptors, but not certain.

Gordon

[2octops]

Great machine. Yes you can get tubular and tibbe adapters for the 1200. You can even get flat cutters for it and cut safe deposit box keys with it.

There are 2 main cutters for most automotive work and they will also do a large majority of the commercial and residential keys. Some mfg's do require a specific cutter like Sargent or Medeco.