Hardened Plate For Single-Sided Deadbolt

[LogicBob]

I've got some balcony doors which I want to install quality deadbolts on, but paying for a fancy high security keyway seems like a waste of money. I was thinking of installing this Schlage single sided deadbolt and swapping the bolt out for the Abloy Expanding Bolt where I can, but then I realized that the outside plate ("trim plate", as they call it) is probably not hardened/drill resistant, and that would become the weakest link. I was unable to find anything similar that looked to have a focus on security. Do you guys have any ideas? The hole in the doors are already cut.

For plan B, I'll just get a quality deadbolt and remove the tailpiece so that the keyway is disabled. If I go this route, obviously, the core doesn't matter. I do have two doors where I really doubt I'll be able to use the Abloy Expanding Bolt (ViewGuard French Door Security Screens), so could you please also recommend a deadbolt with a hardened bolt, drill resistance, etc ignoring all features of the core?

TIA! And thanks for everything I've learned just from lurking! This forum is great!

[LogicBob]

Update: Schlage is supposed to be getting back to me with an answer to whether the plate is hardened.

[cledry]

I'm not sure you can use the Abloy bolt with other deadbolts. There are other considerations, the through bolt size and spacing, the degree of rotation on the tailpiece, the centerline of the tailpiece. It isn't just a matter of swapping an Abloy bolt onto a Schlage and having it work as designed.

[cledry]

Oh, the plate isn't hardened on the Schlage.

[LogicBob]

I'm not sure you can use the Abloy bolt with other deadbolts. There are other considerations, the through bolt size and spacing, the degree of rotation on the tailpiece, the centerline of the tailpiece. It isn't just a matter of swapping an Abloy bolt onto a Schlage and having it work as designed.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm prepared for all of those most of those challenges (not really the screw spacing), but that's a good point, none-the-less.

Oh, the plate isn't hardened on the Schlage.

Do you know this for certain? Schlage hasn't gotten back to me.

I did find one other possibility... while searching through the Medeco Maxum catalog found HERE, I found a deadbolt with the following description, "Maxum® Deadbolt Lock, Blank Plate Outside with Inside
Thumbturn, 1 1/8" Faceplate†, 2 3/8" Backset (Part #11*C281)", but I can't find that part listed anywhere for purchase. Does anybody know anything about this deadbolt? Is that faceplate hardened? I'm going to try contacting Medeco about it tomorrow.

Thank you!

[Evan]

I've got some balcony doors which I want to install quality deadbolts on, but paying for a fancy high security keyway seems like a waste of money. I was thinking of installing this Schlage single sided deadbolt and swapping the bolt out for the Abloy Expanding Bolt where I can, but then I realized that the outside plate ("trim plate", as they call it) is probably not hardened/drill resistant, and that would become the weakest link. I was unable to find anything similar that looked to have a focus on security. Do you guys have any ideas? The hole in the doors are already cut.

Are your doors made of solid steel ?

If not then the lock is not the weakest link...

Do not swap out components of a lock such as the bolt in a deadbolt for another -- such substitutions are not tested for reliability in a testing lab such as UL and may cause issues if something ever happened and the lock failed to operate...

If you are concerned about security in this situation, spend your money installing a real alarm system, not the wireless crap that ADT ad others offer for $199 installed...

~~ Evan

[LogicBob]

Evan,

I've read enough of your posts through searching that I had already considered your points. You really don't need to reply again for my sake.

Are your doors made of solid steel ?

If not then the lock is not the weakest link...

They are security screen screen doors made of steel and aluminum. Making a point to say, "solid steel" is a testament to your absurdity. A door needs to be a 1.75" thick slab of steel to compete with the security of a $12 Kwikset deadbolt? Riiiiiight. BTW, a "solid steel" would weigh 1,300 lbs.

Do not swap out components of a lock such as the bolt in a deadbolt for another -- such substitutions are not tested for reliability in a testing lab such as UL and may cause issues if something ever happened and the lock failed to operate...

So, I may have issues if the lock ever failed to operate? I think that's a certainty.

If you are concerned about security in this situation, spend your money installing a real alarm system, not the wireless crap that ADT ad others offer for $199 installed...

~~ Evan

I've already done that. Thanks.

[cledry]

I'm not sure you can use the Abloy bolt with other deadbolts. There are other considerations, the through bolt size and spacing, the degree of rotation on the tailpiece, the centerline of the tailpiece. It isn't just a matter of swapping an Abloy bolt onto a Schlage and having it work as designed.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm prepared for all of those most of those challenges (not really the screw spacing), but that's a good point, none-the-less.

Oh, the plate isn't hardened on the Schlage.

Do you know this for certain? Schlage hasn't gotten back to me.

I did find one other possibility... while searching through the Medeco Maxum catalog found HERE, I found a deadbolt with the following description, "Maxum® Deadbolt Lock, Blank Plate Outside with Inside
Thumbturn, 1 1/8" Faceplate†, 2 3/8" Backset (Part #11*C281)", but I can't find that part listed anywhere for purchase. Does anybody know anything about this deadbolt? Is that faceplate hardened? I'm going to try contacting Medeco about it tomorrow.

Thank you!

Yes, it isn't hardened.

Not sure about the Medeco. I would suspect they have hardened inserts and ball bearings to protect the bolt and screws. Any Medeco supplier can order that for you.

[Evan]

I've already done that. Thanks.

Ok, new guy, since you seem to be the know-it-all with umm, 6 posts, lets ponder your options --

to not ask absurd questions, sure, but unlikely... (we have seen this many times before)

umm, try surface mounted flush bolts on the inside of your security screen doors, since you would be introducing an access point in the door by having the exterior cylinders installed even if you remove the linkages...

barring that umm, you could try -- eh, nevermind, why waste knowledge on someone ungrateful as you...

~~ Evan

[cheerIO]

I've read enough of your posts through searching that I had already considered your points. You really don't need to reply again for my sake.

a testament to your absurdity.

So, I may have issues if the lock ever failed to operate? I think that's a certainty.

I've already done that. Thanks.

You know LogicBob, this post has been bothering me all week. As a relative new-comer like yourself, I found your responses in this thread to be absolutely ungrateful.

It was really hard for me to believe how snarky you came across in your post and I held my tongue until Evan decided to reply.

Jeeze man, people are just trying to help. Evan had valid points. I think it is a testament to the temperance and respect of this board that you weren't jumped on after your reply.

There are a lot of knowledgeable people here with a lot more experience than any one person. If you come asking for any kind of advice, be grateful for what you get.

I hope you become a productive member of the forum. Although with the perception of your short fuse that may be asking too much.

Maybe you were just having a bad day and it came across badly. I hope so.

cheerIO

[Evan]

Do not swap out components of a lock such as the bolt in a deadbolt for another -- such substitutions are not tested for reliability in a testing lab such as UL and may cause issues if something ever happened and the lock failed to operate...

So, I may have issues if the lock ever failed to operate? I think that's a certainty.

Yes, such as civil liabilities for personal injuries or deaths caused by such modifications at minimum AND/OR criminal penalties (jail time) depending on what type of occupancy the doors are installed in and the applicable building code requirements for egress and your willful decision to install untested modified locks not understanding how they would perform under adverse conditions...

But since you have read a few posts and assume that you understand everything -- make your own choices man...

~~ Evan

[LogicBob]

I've read enough of your posts through searching that I had already considered your points. You really don't need to reply again for my sake.

a testament to your absurdity.

So, I may have issues if the lock ever failed to operate? I think that's a certainty.

I've already done that. Thanks.

You know LogicBob, this post has been bothering me all week. As a relative new-comer like yourself, I found your responses in this thread to be absolutely ungrateful.

It was really hard for me to believe how snarky you came across in your post and I held my tongue until Evan decided to reply.

Jeeze man, people are just trying to help. Evan had valid points. I think it is a testament to the temperance and respect of this board that you weren't jumped on after your reply.

There are a lot of knowledgeable people here with a lot more experience than any one person. If you come asking for any kind of advice, be grateful for what you get.

I hope you become a productive member of the forum. Although with the perception of your short fuse that may be asking too much.

Maybe you were just having a bad day and it came across badly. I hope so.

cheerIO

I can understand why you would take my response that way. I was pretty annoyed, and while I toned it down a lot, I know I let some of it show. If you haven't read a lot of Evan's posts, I can see why you would think my annoyance was unwarranted. The thing is, although Even thinks my post count is a sign of intelligence, I would rather search this forum and others and try to find the answer to my question on my own without bothering the knowledgeable people here, whose time I truly value and appreciate. So... I had spent the previous week search and reading posts; at least 8 hours on this forum alone. I read many posts where Evan replied to tell new members like you and I that they were "wasting their time upgrading this or that" in an order different than his preferred, that their ideas and misconceptions were "LOL funny", that they were going to get somebody hurt by making a modification to a lock (and making it sound like they had already considered that, and made a conscious decision to do it anyway), calling people irresponsible or negligent and claiming that they might end up in jail for it, oh, and my favorite, telling people they don't have anything worth securing and chastising people for wanting privacy! And on, and on.

Here's a few threads that I had bookmarked:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49148&p=371334
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49148&p=371334
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=57525&p=420197
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=49806&p=376347
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47907&p=362238

Like I said, I had already considered his points, and I was already annoyed at how he treated other new members. And yes, I AM ungrateful for his post. For sake, he said that I shouldn't bother upgrading the locks unless I have solid steel doors! Is this a lock forum or a door forum? I'm not going to kiss his butt just because he's got a big post count. He posted in my thread, not just to tell me that I shouldn't be posting my question, but that I shouldn't even be doing the job on my locks. Why should I be grateful for that?

[LogicBob]

I've already done that. Thanks.

Ok, new guy, since you seem to be the know-it-all with umm, 6 posts, lets ponder your options --

I'm a know-it-all because I've installed an alarm? Or because I admitted that I already had one? Maybe I should have said, "Oh Evan! You're a genious! Why didn't I think of that?!?"

And jeeze, I'm sorry for my low post count even though I've been registered here a long time... somewhere I picked up the crazy notion that it's reading and listening that grow your knowledge, as opposed to running your mouth. Silly me.

to not ask absurd questions, sure, but unlikely... (we have seen this many times before)

I'm barely above novice level in regards to locks, so I wouldn't be surprised (or embarrassed) if I have asked an absurd question, but maybe you could tell me exactly what it was that I said which was absurd?

umm, try surface mounted flush bolts on the inside of your security screen doors, since you would be introducing an access point in the door by having the exterior cylinders installed even if you remove the linkages...

The doors came with holes in them, for the locks. There was a reason I was asking specifically about the hardened plate as opposed to asking, "What's the best way to secure these screen doors?" "What's the best way to mount a 1,300lbs solid steel door?" But, I suppose knowing that my screen doors already have lock holes in them is just be being a "know-it-all".

barring that umm, you could try -- eh, nevermind, why waste knowledge on someone ungrateful as you...

~~ Evan

Like I said before:

I've read enough of your posts through searching that I had already considered your points. You really don't need to reply again for my sake.

[LogicBob]

But since you have read a few posts and assume that you understand everything -- make your own choices man...

~~ Evan

No, no! It's completely IMPOSSIBLE to come to your level of understanding and not agree with you. Nope, I must be an idiot.

[MBI]

LogicBob, with what it sounds to me like you're trying to accomplish I think door armor will take care of your needs. It basically gives you a durable steel latch plate that extends much of the length of the frame. It also reinforces the door at the knob and deadbolt, and reinforces the frame at the hinge.

https://securitysnobs.com/Door-Reinforcement/

The full door armor kit can be a big installation project and is probably best served for installation of a new door and frame. On an existing door you'd have to remove all trim and cut all the nails/screws fastening it to the frame in order to install it.

What I'd suggest instead is the EZ-armor kit. It's awesome. It can be installed on an existing door rather quickly, if you're even halfway handy with a drill and screwdriver. About the biggest problem I think you might run into is if your door has very tight clearances between the door and frame to begin with, there is a chance you might have to get a chisel and mortise the wood a little bit so the armor piece can be inset a little to make sure there is enough clearance between the door and frame after the reinforcement is added.

I'm a big fan of Abloy locks AND their awesome deadbolt bolts. But, even if they are out of your price range or if you find their expanding bolt won't work with your deadbolt, your security with even a cheaper lock and bolt like Schlage will be greatly improved with that door armor installed.

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Lastly, and this is directed to everyone in this thread, not just any one person in particular:
I'd appreciate it if we kept things civil so I don't have to lock this thread.