Padlock ID help + Intro :)

[Disco Stu]

Hi everyone,

I'm a commercial/Industrial rental property owner, who is always dealing with locks of some kind. Whether it be tenants changing locks, or putting locks on things and leaving without giving me a key, it seems I'm always having to tinker with something involving pins and tumblers. Tenants? Yeah, they suck sometimes, but at least I get to satisfy my curious side and learn about locks along the way. Quite a fascinating subject to be sure, which is what has brought me to the site. So, enough lurking and reading!

Anyway, per the typical scenario, I had a tenant leave, but before he did, he went ahead and did me a giant favor by locking all but one of the overhead doors(6 Total) with this padlock. It's a solid brass lock. The only identifiable marking is a four digit code above the cylinder. "2559"

So, I was trying to find out some more information before I decide which approach(Pick, Bypass, Impression, Cut) will best suit my intrinsically curious nature and the available time I have. I'm also curious if they can be re-keyed, or if there is a key cut chart that corresponds to the stamped numbers.

Below are some pics and a CAD drawing I made(another hobby of mine) to assist the members of the forum in giving me some information and advice about this lock.

Thanks in advance,

Lawrence

[LockDocWa]

If by "Re-Key" you mean to change the key which opens it now. I don't think so.
The 2559 is probably a blind code, and if we knew the manufacturer, could lead us to the cuts.
They appear to be pin tumbler so impressioning is a way to go.

[ARF-GEF]

Hi Lawrence,

First of all welcome to the site.
I unfortunately can't really help you with the lock, I don't know US lock too well. But let me congratulate on your drawing, it's very nice. Cool hobby.

As for the lock I think the number is interesting. I usually see the number on wafer lock, where it indicates the proper key cut. Ony padlocks the only numbered ones were either government padlocks or padlocks of major companies.

I hope someone with more infos will chipr in and assist you.

(Have you considered calling a locksmith?)

[ARF-GEF]

Ah LockDocWa it seem you were faster

As for impressioning it is a great idea for people who know their way around with locks.
But I think it does require some tools but even more of experience. Do you think it's feasible for a complete newbie?
Lawrence: I think you could read it up and if you feel up to it definitely try it. Don1T give up too easily, but if you fail do be too let down either.

[Disco Stu]

Thank you for the replies!

Answers, thoughts, and of course, more questions!

LockDocWa: It is a pin tumbler. The tenant skipped out under cover of darkness, so probably no luck in obtaining a key or finding where they came from.

ARF-GEF : Considering that the locking mechanism on a garage door is most likely significantly cheaper than an experts time, I think that's the way I'll go to make the doors serviceable in the quickest amount of time. Rest assured, that if removing these would have the potential to damage something more valuable, I would have already consulted a professional.

As for impressioning, I have no idea if I would be able to achieve good results, but the thought of trying is appealing. Not to mention, having 7 keyed alike locks wouldn't be a bad thing either.

My experience includes things like re-keying and master keying commercial store front locks. The typical 15/16" Yale, Schlage, etc. I've also taken a bunch of those "A" series lever style panic trims apart from the back to get the cylinders out when no key is available. Moderate success with bump keys on residential locks sets. Poor success with picking, but I've only tried a few(Got lucky once), and really don't have much invested in tools specifically for that. While not an expert by any definition of the word, I think it's fair to say that I have a basic understanding of the internals of your average locking mechanisms.

You've piqued my curiosity as to where they may have come from. Might be super fast to call whomever they belong to(Company, etc.) and have them remove and take possession again.I wish they had a name or logo in addition to the numbers.

I found the one I took the pictures of in an office desk drawer in a plastic wrapper. Searched again for keys today, but no luck.

So, I guess my next questions are these:

Do you think that one of those "5's" signifies that this is a five pin tumbler? And if so, what blank do you think is the right choice to start the impressioning process? This would be a purely educational endeavor for me, so I'm sure I have tons of reading to do and lots of scrap metal to "manufacture"!

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Lawrence

[zeepia]

Sorry, can´t tell what brand that padlock is.

If that was my 7 locks and I couldn´t pick them open, I would [redacted] and sacrifice one. Then put it in vise and [redacted] that you can get the plug out intact. And CAREFULLY take that out, not messing with the original pin order. A locksmith could make a key to match that bitting very easily and you would end up with 6 working locks (assuming they were all keyed alike...) I don´t know how much a locksmith takes for impressioning the key, if not much then you just take one lock to the smith with a cut shackle and no more diy destruction.

You can learn yourself how many pins there are in this lock by putting a flat metal, like back of a half diamond pick, all the way to the end of the plug, lift all the pins and slowly pull it out. Count how many clicks you hear while doing this, that´s how many pins you have.

just my 1,5 cents.

[LockDocWa]

While shopping I came across this,
Do all brass body padlocks resemble each other?
This one is Corbin, and it is rekeyable.

[LockDocWa]

Cut one off
Take it to a locksmith
Have him produce a key.
Now you have 6 keyed alike padlocks.

You now know what key blank to get
now you can practice impressioning

[jeffmoss26]

Very interesting, with no markings it could be just about anything. Maybe an imported clone, can not really tell based upon the keyway.

[Disco Stu]

Sorry for resurrecting this from the grave! My apologies. However, I thought someone might be able to identify now or just plain find this interesting/useful.

I finally got around to picking and tearing down this lock.

While I still haven't figured out the manufacturer, I figured a few things out. Number one, it was a super easy pick, as it only had three standard pins.

This is what I found out about the lock:

5 Pin Cylinder

Only positions 1 - 2 and 5 were occupied.

All bottom pins were .100 diameter by .155 in height.

All top pins were .100 diameter by .189 in length.

Springs were standard diameter .465 give or take uncompressed.

So, now I feel like I have some closure on the matter, other than knowing the manufacturer. Any guesses?

Here is a pic of the guts:


And here is my requisite drawing of the cylinder:



Thanks for looking, and sorry again for dredging up the past!

Lawrence

[cheerIO]

only positions 1 - 2 and 5 were occupied

That's weird, is this some kind of primitive master-keying strategy? Just move around the pins in an existing lock that happen to fit the key you want to use then throw the other ones out?

Nice drawings by the way. I use sketchup for a lot of simple designs but it sucks for 2d. Do you have any recommendations for someone that just wants to draw simple sketches in 2d to scale with measurements? Preferably free? I use mac and pc.

Thanks for any info.

[Squelchtone]

it looks like a Wilson Bohannan bottom, but those cutouts near the shackle look like a Hercules padlock.

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERCULES-MADE-P ... 3f3a0fc8bb

Hercules/Herculock http://www.herculock.com/product-specifications/

very interesting.

+1 on the nice CAD drawings

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

it looks like a Wilson Bohannan bottom, but those cutouts near the shackle look like a Hercules padlock.

example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERCULES-MADE-P ... 3f3a0fc8bb

Hercules/Herculock http://www.herculock.com/product-specifications/

very interesting.

+1 on the nice CAD drawings

Squelchtone

Ding Ding Ding! Looks like we have a winner. Good find, Squelchtone. That looks exactly like his.

Gordon

[Disco Stu]

I have to agree with Squelchtone. Thank you!

According to my measurements, I would have to go with it being a 700 series Herculock.

As for the weird pinning, anybody's guess is as good as mine. An uncut KW1 opens them with a jiggle here or there, so in my opinion, security is not first priority here. I might be leaning towards them being a set of lockouts for machine tools, or electrical equipment. More of a visual indicator/deterrent.

Thanks for the compliments on the drawings. I have a background in Mechanical/Architectural drafting, and am a visual person, so drawing helps me understand things. I draw almost everything I take apart, different locks being just one of those things.

I'll shoot you a PM cheerIO about software options. Always willing to put my 2 cents in. Just be ready to make change.

Thanks again for the input everyone, it's greatly appreciated.

Lawrence

[peterwn]

only positions 1 - 2 and 5 were occupied

That's weird, is this some kind of primitive master-keying strategy?

Bramah locks originally used such a strategy which I saw somewhere. Regular locks used 6 sliders but masterkeyed locks were designed for 8 sliders but only 6 were installed - the masterkey had 8 cuts. This would allow 28 locks per suite which would have been quite sufficient for a squire, king, etc. Since each lock still had 6 sliders, security was not compromised compared with regular locks.