Medeco Keyway Identification

[SomeLocks]

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking for a while and practicing and reading, etc.

I bought 10 Medeco 51s cylinders from ebay, no key of course. I'd like some help identifying the keyway and locating a key blank for it. I'd like to try to make a key for it if possible. I've read that some keyways from Medeco are patented and restricted. This looks close to the A1515 (Ilco Key Directory), but I would like a second opinion.

Here it is: http://imgur.com/zUEiCuL

Is there any good place to source these keys online? I tried my local locksmith shop, they only have one commercial Medeco keyway and this isn't it.

Thanks in advance!

SomeLocks

[MacGnG1]

It is very hard to find blanks for any medeco that isnt a commercial keyway. Medeco profiles arent published so whatever you find in the ilco catalog is really the only blanks you will easily be able to get unless you are real lucky on ebay or find a lockie with old stock that isnt against his contract to sell. It is a cat and mouse game trying to find medeco keyblanks for used cylinders, but sometimes u get lucky or you just gotta break out a set of hand files and go to work.

Good luck.

[Squelchtone]

I am pretty sure from my experience that keyway is restricted to a particular company. I bought some locks from an aerospace company, and they were large enough to buy their own keyway from Medeco. Blanks were impossible to find and for good reason.

The 51s by the way, is not the model number, this is something Medeco shouldn't have bothered stamping on the front of their locks. That is the number given to the lock by UL after it passed UL 437 high security lock testing, it is not a Medeco part number, but sure does add to the confusion, and you're not the first nor the last to call it a Medeco 51s.

You could make a working key by using a Mosler 1095a safety deposit box blank and some files and a dremel, it will be ugly but it will work.

good luck,
Squelchtone

[somenewguy]

Perhaps one of our readers has an Easy Entrie that could come up with some blanks?

[GWiens2001]

Perhaps one of our readers has an Easy Entrie that could come up with some blanks?

An Easy Entrie machine still requires a key or blank to copy.

Gordon

[somenewguy]

Oh right, the OP doesn't have the key. I guess I was thinking of my own situation with some S&G padlocks...

[SomeLocks]

Thank you everyone for the input.

Here is what I am thinking to get a key of sorts:

Take a photograph to trace the key way.
Import the photo to CAD for trace.
Extrude the trace.
Send to 3d Printer.

I'm not convinced that the plastic will be strong enough. However I can get a starting point and maybe make something strong on a mill.

I'm taking this route because I feel I'd spend many countless hours of filing only to find I'd filed the wrong thing or too much! I'm not any more confident what I'm doing will work right away, but I think I have a better shot than filing.

Any thoughts on this?

SomeLocks

[globallockytoo]

got a credit card? (like the promo ones you get in the mail all the time)

Use a knife to cut the shape of the key into it.....works fine.

http://www.wired.com/2008/08/medeco-locks-cr/

[SomeLocks]

I did see the wired article. It's nice as a bypass and I intend to try it as I have some white plastic lying around.

I should have specified why exactly I want a key.

I intend to repin and master key these locks. I have 10 cylinders so just a bypass won't do. I'd like some key blanks so I can play with that aspect of this kind of lock.

I've drawn this up in CAD and plan on seeing if I can get this to a 3d printer in the next few days. This is a rough prototype so we'll see how it works.

SomeLocks

[SomeLocks]

I thought I'd post back a few comments/updates on this thread.

1. I was able to successfully CAD the key way and generate a 3D shape that looks like a key! I used AutoCAD, but I personally think SolidWorks is much easier to use for these purposes.

2. I joined a site http://makexyz.com and found someone local with a 3D printer. I sent the files over and a few hours later I had a couple of blanks.

3. The results are good. I had a to file a little excess material away to get it working. It is nothing like what I think I would have had with standard metal blank. They are strong enough too. I was surprised by that. I think something like a hard resin would work well for a significant period of time--assuming the user was careful with it. You can see the pictures here:

http://i.imgur.com/984NPsT.jpg (Top unaltered, Bottom filled to fit keyway)

http://i.imgur.com/xCI7PtF.jpg (It works!)

4. The final step is to cut the bitting. Since this is medeco, there are angles involved. Before I start cutting I need to do a little research to understand how these pins work. Are there any good resources out there on this?

Thanks,

SomeLocks

[Divinorum]

jkthecjer has some great pictures and descriptions of my different Medecos on his website. You just need to scroll down and search through the page.

http://www.theamazingking.com/locks.php

Also youtube is a great resource. There are some videos of cut always Medecos in action.

I thought Matt Blaze had some information about Medecos on crypto.com but now I can't find it.

[Squelchtone]

4. The final step is to cut the bitting. Since this is medeco, there are angles involved. Before I start cutting I need to do a little research to understand how these pins work. Are there any good resources out there on this?

Thanks,

SomeLocks

yep, right here, many of us here are well versed on Medeco. the best thing you can do is Google Images search for Medeco pin, Medeco pins, Medeco key, Medeco angles and then you'll see how to pins which have a V chisel shape fit into the cut on the key.

Your cylinders should have grub screws with an Allen head in them which help in removing the pins and springs. The best way to make this key is to remove the plugand drop the pins into it without the top pins and springs, then file the key 1 pin at a time, until the pin is flush with the plug and the angle matches. I would file down 80% straight across, then the remainded at the angle that pin needs to be. There are 3 angles, -20 degrees, 0 (straight across with the file), or +20 degrees. Looking at the limit stop flags on the key pin you'll quickly figure out which angle to cut for each key cut, but like I said, first cut the depths, then you can do the angles.

Here is a photo of the angles of a Medeco key and an Emhart key which uses a similar technology. you can see the bottom of each key cut the V is either \ left | straight across or / right



Mitch.Capper made a beautiful cutaway of a Medeco and this shows what's going on inside. when you insert the pins into the plug and then slide the blank key in and start filing so the pins fall flush with the plug, make sure the grooves (marked in purple) in this photo all point to the right when you look at the front of the lock. those gates need to all point towards the sidebar.



here is a Yale safe deposit box lock I needed to make a key for, you'll be doing the same with your printed key with the plug inserted onto it:



hope this helps, feel free to ask any questions,
Squelchtone