Old Yale cabniet lock on an old 30's jennings slot machine

[Squelchtone]

I rebuild old antique slot machines, I have one here on a Jennings slot machine that was made in the 30's and has an old cabinet style Yale lock on the back door, it's locked and there is not key. I have picked it several times and once picked I can only move the lock cylinder about 5 degrees and it stops hard. The lock cylinder is tight so in locked position the cylinder is straight up and down with no play at all, so I am sure I must be picking it past its shear line. I tried to force it more than the 5 degrees with a screw driver and it will not budge with more than gentile presser. If I move the cylinder back straight up it will lock again and I have to pick it again to get that 5 degrees. I really hate to drill these old locks, there expensive to replace. Am I missing something here as I can't understand why this lock once picked off center, will not move more than this 5 degrees. Can someone offer some ideas, or give me and idea of what else to try, or should I just keep trying to pick it past this point. If I get my camera back I can post photos of this if helpful.
Thanks
Coinslots

[GWiens2001]

Pictures would help immensely. Yale has made a staggering variety of locks over the years. Even just in the '30's, they had warded, lever, lever warded, pin tumbler, combination and think they even made wafer padlocks back then -though those may have come along a little later.

Gordon

[coinslots]

Pictures would help immensely. Yale has made a staggering variety of locks over the years. Even just in the '30's, they had warded, lever, lever warded, pin tumbler, combination and think they even made wafer padlocks back then -though those may have come along a little later.

Gordon

Thank you and I'll post some photo's just as soon as I can, it is a pin tumbler lock.
Coinslots

[Raymond]

Does the same thing happen when turning in both directions? If you use a plug spinner does the plug stop at the same amount in the opposite direction?

Old Yale pin tumbler products used very long and short mushroom top pins. The pins went down to a small diameter on the bottom end and when caught would allow the plug to turn nearly 3/4 of a pin diameter. This may be what is happening. With the age of the lock, wear, wide pin holes and mushrooms you have just been caught up in the pick resistance of a Yale.

Those locks are probably easier to impression than to pick.

[coinslots]

Does the same thing happen when turning in both directions? If you use a plug spinner does the plug stop at the same amount in the opposite direction?

Old Yale pin tumbler products used very long and short mushroom top pins. The pins went down to a small diameter on the bottom end and when caught would allow the plug to turn nearly 3/4 of a pin diameter. This may be what is happening. With the age of the lock, wear, wide pin holes and mushrooms you have just been caught up in the pick resistance of a Yale.

Those locks are probably easier to impression than to pick.

This might be right on, as this sounds like what is going on with this lock, It takes a bit to pick it each time only to just have it turn that 5 degrees and stop, I wonder if it is worth it to keep trying by going back to the locked position again each time it stops, and try it all over again hoping to be past this point, or should I give up on picking and try something else, what do you think?
Thank You
Coinslots

[GWiens2001]

Once you have the rotation, you should then ease off tension and then carefully lift each pin, seeing which one(s) give counter-rotation on the tension wrench. Those will be the mushroom pins. Keep lifting that pin, allowing the tension wrench to counter-rotate until that pin sets.

Gordon

[coinslots]

OK, I got the photos but can't see how to add them to this discussion? Can you tell me or p/m me and I'll email photo' to you.

[Squelchtone]

OK, I got the photos but can't see how to add them to this discussion? Can you tell me or p/m me and I'll email photo' to you.

Hello,

The easiest way to share your photos with us is to upload them to http://imgur.com/ and click the blue Upload Images box at the top, or you can try using http://tinypic.com/ and then Copy/Paste the link in your reply.

Squelchtone

[Raymond]

Upload your pictures to a photo site like photobucket, imgur, or tinypic. They copy the picture reference from that site into your message here. Somewhere here is a much better explanation of how to do it. I always get confused when I try to display something.

From looking at the partially picked photo I believe the spool pins are set. The angle is just right. Search for picking spools for explanations from others who are good at picking spools. You have to let the plug return nearly to locking point while putting pressure on a pin. Putting pressure on the pin wilI cause the pluge to actually move back to vertical a little. After freeing one, move to another. You could also try over lifting or high raking. I am not very good at picking spools but I can impression well. I would impression this lock.

[serrurier]

Good day,

I am curious about what is the set up inside since this is not your first machine could anything inside be stopping you from fully turning? Could it be that it is not the lock that stops you but something blocking the way?

Good luck

[coinslots]

Upload your pictures to a photo site like photobucket, imgur, or tinypic. They copy the picture reference from that site into your message here. Somewhere here is a much better explanation of how to do it. I always get confused when I try to display something.

From looking at the partially picked photo I believe the spool pins are set. The angle is just right. Search for picking spools for explanations from others who are good at picking spools. You have to let the plug return nearly to locking point while putting pressure on a pin. Putting pressure on the pin wilI cause the pluge to actually move back to vertical a little. After freeing one, move to another. You could also try over lifting or high raking. I am not very good at picking spools but I can impression well. I would impression this lock.

I have been picking locks for some years, but I am not a locksmith, my old hunting partner was and taught me a lot of what I know, but he is gone now and I am still miles from where I need to be. So, I don't know how to impression a lock, or spooling, and I wish I had an old lock like this so I could look inside it to see what I am trying to do, it sounds more than straight tumblers and just picking to find the shear line. I will read up more on all this here on this site but I need to get in this machine soon, as I have to restore it for a customer but I just hate that Idea that I might have to drill this lock, I can't stand doing that and if it has an added lock back plate that covers the back of the lock, well... then you know where up in the creek I'll be. I thought about maybe there might be something stopping the cam from turning also, but I put claps to pull the door in and added a little more turning presser on the lock cylinder by using a screwdriver to see if it would move more at all, and stops tight, so it has to be the lock. If I go in deep with no tension bar holding the cylinder when it is picked over, If I gently push up on the tumblers, i think it's about the second tumbler from the back of the lock, when I lift that one just a little, the cylinder wants to turn itself back to the locked state. I could post the photos on my web site or on my forum but this site does not allow me to add my web address. So I'll see if I can do something with the links above and post the photos somehow. Do you know where I can see what the inside of this lock looks like? Is there a cut away of it located somewhere? That would help if I knew what might be going on. Thank You all so very much for your help!
Coinslots

[coinslots]

Good day,

I am curious about what is the set up inside since this is not your first machine could anything inside be stopping you from fully turning? Could it be that it is not the lock that stops you but something blocking the way?

Good luck

See my answer up above this one about the cam being blocked, I don't think the cam is blocked, I just think this lock might just bigger, bader, and meaner then any others I have tried to pick. Thanks
Coinslots

[coinslots]

Upload your pictures to a photo site like photobucket, imgur, or tinypic. They copy the picture reference from that site into your message here. Somewhere here is a much better explanation of how to do it. I always get confused when I try to display something.

From looking at the partially picked photo I believe the spool pins are set. The angle is just right. Search for picking spools for explanations from others who are good at picking spools. You have to let the plug return nearly to locking point while putting pressure on a pin. Putting pressure on the pin wilI cause the pluge to actually move back to vertical a little. After freeing one, move to another. You could also try over lifting or high raking. I am not very good at picking spools but I can impression well. I would impression this lock.

I have been picking locks for some years, but I am not a locksmith, my old hunting partner was and taught me a lot of what I know, but he is gone now and I am still miles from where I need to be. So, I don't know how to impression a lock, or spooling, and I wish I had an old lock like this so I could look inside it to see what I am trying to do, it sounds more than straight tumblers and just picking to find the shear line. I will read up more on all this here on this site but I need to get in this machine soon, as I have to restore it for a customer but I just hate that Idea that I might have to drill this lock, I can't stand doing that and if it has an added lock back plate that covers the back of the lock, well... then you know where up in the creek I'll be. I thought about maybe there might be something stopping the cam from turning also, but I put claps to pull the door in and added a little more turning presser on the lock cylinder by using a screwdriver to see if it would move more at all, and stops tight, so it has to be the lock. If I go in deep with no tension bar holding the cylinder when it is picked over, If I gently push up on the tumblers, i think it's about the second tumbler from the back of the lock, when I lift that one just a little, the cylinder wants to turn itself back to the locked state. I could post the photos on my web site or on my forum but this site does not allow me to add my web address. So I'll see if I can do something with the links above and post the photos somehow. Do you know where I can see what the inside of this lock looks like? Is there a cut away of it located somewhere? That would help if I knew what might be going on. Thank You all so very much for your help!
Coinslots

P.S. I just found a great video on picking spool pins, and now i understand what is going on, so it will be interesting to see if I might have learned enough to get a little close on this lock, thanks for the advice!
Coinslots

[coinslots]

Dam If I didn't finally do it!!! With your help, I got this thing picked open. It really helped to know that this had some spool pins in this lock. Now, can someone make me a couple of keys for it? I pulled the lock out and it is still picked unlocked. The only numbers I could find stamped in the lock are ODJ 2808 and I am sure that the ODJ stands for O.D. Jennings slot machine Company. I have several photos of the lock now and if you would like to see these just PM me and I'll attach and send the photos. Now.... I hope for someone to make a couple of keys for this lock for me. I can mail the lock to you if needed. It took me about 30" to 45" to pick it after I learned about the spool pins and man, what a feeling that was when it flopped all the way over. Also, if you ask for the photo's you will see that my greatest fears had come true, this lock had that security bar on the back of the lock so if I had drilled it I would of been in a barrow of something that smells really-really bad.
Thanks All............ Thanks again for all you help and I'll be back with real soon, with another really hard problem with an old Mills Bell type side-cut lock and key.
Coinslots.

[Raymond]

Edit your profile so we know what part of the country you are in. Then maybe someone real close can contact you. If no one else contacts you PM me.