Key stuck in lock after failed foil impressioning

[sundiata6]

Hi, I hope this is in the right place.

I've watched and read a good amount about foil impressioning so I thought I'd give it a try. I thinned a blank and filed a comb onto it, stuck some 3M HVAC foil tape on, put it into an SC1 keyway, and wiggled for no less than 10 minutes. I did nothing wrong as far as I can tell, but the technique didn't work, and now the key won't come back out of the keyway. I've tried pressing against the cylinder of the lock with one hand while I try to withdraw the key with my other hand, grabbing the head of the key with pliers and pulling hard... no luck. My guess is that the pins pierced the foil in such a way that they can't ramp back up over the comb's prongs. What can I do to get the key out? I'd like to keep the lock usable, if possible.

[Squelchtone]

Hi, I hope this is in the right place.

I've watched and read a good amount about foil impressioning so I thought I'd give it a try. I thinned a blank and filed a comb onto it, stuck some 3M HVAC foil tape on, put it into an SC1 keyway, and wiggled for no less than 10 minutes. I did nothing wrong as far as I can tell, but the technique didn't work, and now the key won't come back out of the keyway. I've tried pressing against the cylinder of the lock with one hand while I try to withdraw the key with my other hand, grabbing the head of the key with pliers and pulling hard... no luck. My guess is that the pins pierced the foil in such a way that they can't ramp back up over the comb's prongs. What can I do to get the key out? I'd like to keep the lock usable, if possible.

wait, this is a thing? I know you can foil impression dimple locks, but you can do it to normal pin size locks like a Schlage? I'm not surprised is it stuck, that's gonna be a chore to remove that key. do you have a broken key extractor to go in and lift the pins and then pull the key out once extractor is inserted all the way?

good luck,
Squelchtone

[sundiata6]

wait, this is a thing? I know you can foil impression dimple locks, but you can do it to normal pin size locks like a Schlage? I'm not surprised is it stuck, that's gonna be a chore to remove that key. do you have a broken key extractor to go in and lift the pins and then pull the key out once extractor is inserted all the way?

good luck,
Squelchtone

It works successfully in these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V3m_09U4Kk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mzKV6XZprk

I have a pick set, but the key fills up the keyway completely so there's no room to slide in another tool of any sort.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I believe your reasoning behind the stuck key is spot on. Do you have access to the back of the cylinder? If not, attach vise grips to the bow of the key and pull while gently rocking clockwise, counter clockwise, and back and so on and so forth.

[sundiata6]

I believe your reasoning behind the stuck key is spot on. Do you have access to the back of the cylinder? If not, attach vise grips to the bow of the key and pull while gently rocking clockwise, counter clockwise, and back and so on and so forth.

I've tried rocking and pulling without luck, but I do have access to the back of the cylinder. What do you recommend?

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I believe your reasoning behind the stuck key is spot on. Do you have access to the back of the cylinder? If not, attach vise grips to the bow of the key and pull while gently rocking clockwise, counter clockwise, and back and so on and so forth.

I've tried rocking and pulling without luck, but I do have access to the back of the cylinder. What do you recommend?

Remove the tail piece or cam. Gives you access, or more access, to the back. If you have a small punch you might try punching the key out.

Also, you can remove the pins via the bible (where the springs and top pins are held). Nearly always a small strip of brass that is penned into place. Easy to remove and reuse when reinstalling. Take a hacksaw blade and place it with the teeth down on top of the strip. Apply downward and back pressure so that the teeth can bite into the brass. Using a hammer, lightly tap the top edge of the hacksaw so that the hacksaw begins pulling the strip off of the cylinder's bible. The hacksaw should stay in place and move with the brass strip; if not, you're not holding it down hard enough to bite. Springs will go flying so watch out.

With the strip removed, you can remove all pins and that might free the key/foil enough to be removed. Assembly is just the reverse of what you did. Actually, assembly is easier because very light taps will put the strip back in place. As long as it is not a Kaba Peaks or Falcon SFIC, you can slide it right back on. If it is Kaba Peaks or Falcon SFIC let me know and I'll tell you how to take care of it.

[sundiata6]

I didn't know pins could be removed via the top of the bible; I'll give it a try and see if it works. Also, it's just a regular Schlage SC1.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I didn't know pins could be removed via the top of the bible; I'll give it a try and see if it works. Also, it's just a regular Schlage SC1.

A majority can. Schlage original KIK/KIL and mortise cylinders can (standard, Everest, Primus).

[Sinifar]

As you did not post a pix of the cylinder, it could have a brass strip on the top, or not. If so, just remove the strip, and dump out the springs and pins and go from there.

The other option is to drill out the top of the bible and then dump the springs and screws. Your first hole has to be .231 from the face of the lock, then .156 between the centers of the remaining pin chambers. Use a number 36 drill, or 7/64 is the closest fractional -- then tap for 6 - 32 threads, then install 6 - 32 Allen screws, 1/8 inch long. That will close the pin cells. Old Medeco used this method and it will work for you.

In the event of you having to drill, make sure you are on exact center. The 7/64 will work as this is not a critical usage, but you should invest in a set of numbered drill if you are going to work in this trade. // A No. 36 drill is .1065, and a 7/64 is .1094, so it will work in this case.

Sinifar

[YouLuckyFox]

When I've had this happen, I take a safety pin (because the needle is flexible) and lift all the pins to the top and pull the key out, this can be done by filing the shoulder of the key to allow ingress of the needle or by doing this from the back of the lock. By the way, you don't need to use the foil just for auto-impressioning, you can also use it for manual impressioning. You just use a knife and cut a really thin strip and lay it tangent to the slopes of the blade. Sometimes you need to lift all the pins to get the blank out with a needle so that you don't leave false positives on the strip.

[cheerIO]

This is really interesting to me and I have never heard of it before.

You say that you thinned the blank and cut a comb into it. But did you mill a recess to take that steel insert in the videos?

Seems to me that steel piece would be required to lift the pins out from the comb to be able to remove the key.

[sundiata6]

Also, you can remove the pins via the bible (where the springs and top pins are held). Nearly always a small strip of brass that is penned into place. Easy to remove and reuse when reinstalling. Take a hacksaw blade and place it with the teeth down on top of the strip. Apply downward and back pressure so that the teeth can bite into the brass. Using a hammer, lightly tap the top edge of the hacksaw so that the hacksaw begins pulling the strip off of the cylinder's bible. The hacksaw should stay in place and move with the brass strip; if not, you're not holding it down hard enough to bite. Springs will go flying so watch out.

With the strip removed, you can remove all pins and that might free the key/foil enough to be removed. Assembly is just the reverse of what you did. Actually, assembly is easier because very light taps will put the strip back in place. As long as it is not a Kaba Peaks or Falcon SFIC, you can slide it right back on. If it is Kaba Peaks or Falcon SFIC let me know and I'll tell you how to take care of it.

This worked, although I just used a small flathead screwdriver instead of a hacksaw blade. Thanks for the tip.

You say that you thinned the blank and cut a comb into it. But did you mill a recess to take that steel insert in the videos?

Seems to me that steel piece would be required to lift the pins out from the comb to be able to remove the key.

I didn't, actually... might be where I went wrong

[buddykiller]

You say that you thinned the blank and cut a comb into it. But did you mill a recess to take that steel insert in the videos?

Seems to me that steel piece would be required to lift the pins out from the comb to be able to remove the key.

I didn't, actually... might be where I went wrong

thankfully it wasn't in use. i doubt you're the first to forget an integral step in their excitement to try a new technique. that's got to be an inherent flaw in the curious and hands on kind of people like us. i've had so many "doh!" moments in my life like this, thankfully you didn't have a captive audience >_>