what am I doing wrong

[enigma1952]

I bought a cutaway 6 pin euro cylinder to practice on. The problem is pin 3 is the first binding pin then 1 - 2, but when I try to get to 4-5-6 there is no room to get over pin 3 without over setting it. To ease my peace of mind I swapped pins 3-6 around and can pick without problem. The original configuration (which opens with the key) has me totally baffled, any help appreciated
Alan

[spandexwarrior]

What keyway is it, and what picks are you using? A low cut (long pin) in front of one or more high cuts (short pin) is a common challenge, a pick with more reach is generally what you need to work around it. If it's a nasty keyway, you might need a thinner and taller pick or some other variation. A pic of they key would be helpful if you want some specific recommendations.

-Brian

[capt.dunc]

try picking in the opposite direction (clockwise/anti clockwise), to change the binding order and try changing your tensioning position (bok/tok), tok may give you enough room to get under that third pin.

[enigma1952]

thanks for the suggestions Capt Dunc. I will try those later today and post how I get on

[buddykiller]

What keyway is it, and what picks are you using? A low cut (long pin) in front of one or more high cuts (short pin) is a common challenge, a pick with more reach is generally what you need to work around it. If it's a nasty keyway, you might need a thinner and taller pick or some other variation. A pic of they key would be helpful if you want some specific recommendations.

-Brian

i agree, sounds like either a nasty keyway, a nasty bitting, or a combination of the two.

OP, is pin 3 set very low and 4, 5, and 6 high? if so you need either a slimmer profile (perhaps thinner as well seeing as how it's a euro lock) pick with a deeper hook or one of the several reaching picks such as a deforest diamond.

[MBI]

Feedback can be weird in a cutaway lock. I don't recommend them for picking practice. They're cool to look at and to demonstrate how locks work, but horrible for learning to pick.

[enigma1952]

an update still cannot get pick over (past) pin3 without over setting it. I purchased a cheapo pick gun and that has no problem opening it, mainly as the pick is very slim and straight. but this doesn't overcome my spp problems and gives no satisfaction. possibly a comedian has re-pinned it and now the laughs on me for buying the lock in the first place. Just a hint of sour grapes there, maybe me.

[enigma1952]

have posted pictures links here as requested, excuse the photography
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz9gbu3bprgd499/Key.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7d511ilt4pxz8 ... y.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4pmlzf29ascik78/Lock.JPG?dl=0

[spandexwarrior]

I kinda figured it was a Yale (or similar) keyway like that. Pins 2 and 3 are so low that the best way to attack that is probably to use top of keyway tension so that you can go in from the bottom and twist the pick up through the warding. A thin medium hook is probably what I would use. You can also lay your pick over the key and see if it has the height to raise the back pins high enough without getting caught up in the warding - I guess you can see the same thing just looking at the cutaway too.

-Brian

[enigma1952]

Thank you for all your suggestions I finally cracked it using ideas from most of your suggestions. How I did it was, tok tension, de forrest hook, bit of twisting and fiddling with pick and picking and in wrong direction. Lock is now picked, again many thanks so tomorrow I will attempt to make a spinner, that should be fun

Alan

[op-sec]

Good Job Alan.

I ran into a very similar problem on a Medico KeyMark. My solution was to "bend" one of the tiny hooks in my GOSO set to have a profile of about 1mm. It's a VERY shallow short-hook now but, I can reliably pick the KeyMark with it. I couldn't even get my "go to" picks int the key way of that lock!

[RedHoodJack]

Hi, i've had this on several newer yales and a bunch of union's. I made a falle safe style with a deep curve and this allowed going under the low pin and raising the pin behind higher as required.

[sentientsentinel]

enigma this sounds like a real enigma.

[deolslyfox]

I have several hooks that I've made out of .025" stainless steel with a VERY narrow, straight shaft just for such occasions .... The stainless is harder to work with than high carbon steel, but the strength pays off when you want to make a very narrow, straight shaft. The narrow shaft is .050" and works great in paracentric keyways while providing plenty of strength to set those deep pins in the back of the cylinder.

I have actually made more narrow ones, but .050" seems to be a good trade-off between size and strength.

The other thing you may want to consider is buying a duplicate of your favorite hook and filing down the shaft so that it is narrow enough to work those smaller keyways. Peterson Government Steel picks (.025") will accommodate this mod well w/o bending / breaking. If you thin down one of the .015" picks, you will have to treat it more gently. It will be better employed as a "lifter" then as a "lever".