Binding vs over-set pins

[Smrtz]

I'm having trouble differentiating between the rigidity of a binding pin, and the stiffness of an over-set pin. Can you guys give me some pointers please?

[smokingman]

I'm having trouble differentiating between the rigidity of a binding pin, and the stiffness of an over-set pin. Can you guys give me some pointers please?

You should feel a slight "give" and a tiny bit of rotation with the set binding pin.
The over set pin will just bind.
At least thats how it feels to me.
In some locks it is almost imperceptable, in others,you can feel and see it.
Just depends on the tolerences of the parts.
Use light tension to be able to feel it, it is something you must learn by practice and patience.

[KPick]

A binding pin should give you a nice "click" sound, and should turn the lock's plug just a bit.

A overset pin will feel like your shoving a pin inside a clay of puddy and it just feels wrong. Also, an overset pin will feel like you have just shoved the pin up too far.

The key to differentiating this difference is to practice. After some time picking locks and doing your research online, you will find that some of this information will make sense, it takes some time to click, but if you really want to quickly gauge the difference, get youself one of those see through or milled locks of the net.

[op-sec]

If you can't feel the difference, you're using WAY too much tension. We've all been there. It's part of the learning curve. Heavy tension gives you that nice "thunk" when you set a pin. You will learn though that using the lightest possible tension works better and will also get the lock open faster.

[Smrtz]

If you can't feel the difference, you're using WAY too much tension. We've all been there. It's part of the learning curve. Heavy tension gives you that nice "thunk" when you set a pin. You will learn though that using the lightest possible tension works better and will also get the lock open faster.

Hmm, good advice, I'll have to try this when I get home...

For a bit more information, I have a cutaway lock, and I'm trying to get better at SPP it without looking, but every time I hit a 'speed bump' or pin that's not bouncing back I can't tell if it's binding or over-set. Also, at least in this lock, when I'm touching a pin that I've already set, it'll still feel kinda springy, is that also because I'm using too much tension?

[op-sec]

... I have a cutaway lock, and I'm trying to get better at SPP it without looking, but every time I hit a 'speed bump' or pin that's not bouncing back I can't tell if it's binding or over-set. Also, at least in this lock, when I'm touching a pin that I've already set, it'll still feel kinda springy, is that also because I'm using too much tension?

Its possible that you're not only using too much tension but, also using too much force on your hook.

I hold my short hook with my index and second finger on the bottom and thumb on top. I don't wrap my hand around it. I'm just barely holding it with my fingertips. (Most of the time... Some locks require a different technique - as you can see in my videos.) Also keep in mind that my videos are 5-6 years old and my technique as improved significantly. I'm often able to pick random deadbolts or KIK locks in 5-10 seconds now when I go on "lock-out" calls.

Cut-away locks are good for getting an understanding of what is going on but, you REALLY want to be practicing on "real" locks. As for not knowing if you're over-set or bound, you've likely got a 5-pin lock. It is going to set in a particular order. As you build up your "collection" of locks, you will start to learn (without trying) the picking order of the pins of each lock because you're going to spend HOURS picking each as you learn. This isn't a "bad" thing and don't worry about it. It will actually help you start to listen and feel. I personally allow myself to visualize the inside of the lock as I'm picking. The feather-light tension and feather-light picking force will allow you to start to learn what a false-set feels like and how to get into false-set. (You *WANT* to get into false-set!) I've got several locks that I've picked hundreds of times. I've opened them all without getting into false-set but, it is certainly EASIER to pick them all if I can get into a nice, deep false-set right off the bat. Often, the easiest way to do that is to purposely over-set several pins at once and then back off tension to get the pin to go into either full-set or false-set.

Once you learn to tell when you've over-set a pin, you'll start advancing quickly. If you KNOW that you've over-set a pin or pins, back off on your tension ever so slightly until you hear the pins starting to reset. Don't just "dump" the tension. Back it off ever so slightly. On a scale of 1-10 on tension pressure, do something like this:

4-3-4-3-2-3-2-1-2 Notice that you're backing off slightly and then back up. The reason for this is that you WILL run into locks that will always go into an over-set state on one or more pins during the picking process. You may have 3-4 pins over-set as a result of picking that last one or two pins. You then want to back off SLOWLY in a "pulsing" manner so that the over-set pins go (one-at-a-time) from over-set to set.

When you start picking serrated and mushroom security pins, etc, you will use this technique a BUNCH. You will also learn to love security pins because they give you some really good feedback (especially mushroom pins). You KNOW you're making progress with a pin when applying pressure causes the lock plug to rotate OPPOSITE to your tension pressure. You slowly apply pressure with your hook while slowly releasing tension to allow the plug to counter-rotate. Then, all of the sudden, the pin sets. When the last pin to set is a mushroom, you can get a 5-10deg counter-rotation of the plug as you apply pressure with your pick and then, when it goes from "false-set" into "set", suddenly the plug jumps ahead 20-deg and the lock opens.

I've got some Master #40 locks - the little puck disk style locks with the rotating shackle - that are really fun to pick because of how deep they go into false-set. I sometimes do "bar tricks" with those. I purposely use a TON of tension. I then put the pick in the hand of a pretty girl and put my hand over her hand. The added tension (way more than normal) provides a real loud audible "set" sound as pins go into set or false-set. The counter-rotation of the mushroom pins (all five pins are mushroom security pins in these particular locks) is so extreme that I'm able to feel more than enough to pick the locks - even though I'm not holding the pick and am instead holding someones the girls hand that is holding the pick. Keep in mind though, I have been picking locks for quite a while. I couldn't do this when I was first starting out. Also keep in mind that using extreme tension like I've described WILL damage your locks and possibly your pick(s) as well. Learn to walk before you try to run.

Master #40 SPP and then Rake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=341BW45jXQg

You can really see the "false set" and "counter-rotation" of the plug going from false-set to full-set when I'm picking these Abus 83/45's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIL_OtMaGac

And of course, I'm pretty proud of my Medico successes...

Medico 51S SPP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Dp-5gEbGQ

Medico KeyMark 6-pin SFIC SPP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDxdHbwtUjw

[foxyfox]

I have a technique you can try out. First a little background about myself: I get insane tendonitis, and it's so bad that within 30 seconds of picking, my entire forearm gets tingly, cold, and numb. And even for a completely healthy person, being able to 'feel' delicate sensations is a function of peak mental concentration and fresh fingertips; both go downhill with time in your picking session, so at a certain point, you're simply too tired mentally and physically to feel anything.

Here's the workaround which works great for me, it's kind of noobish, so take it for what it's worth.

Use your eyes to see the springiness. You can actually see the pick bounce back on a springy pin. For a set pin, when you press down on the pin and release the pick force a bit, you'll see the pick pivot up, then stop. Whereas by if you try to do it by feel at a certain point, it just feels as if you're just applying a constant force. Overset pins, don't bounce back.