Replacing "Whitco" Euro Cylinder 'Floating Cam'

[Michelin Man]

Hey Guys,

I have a Whitco branded Euro style double cylinder on my screen door which I have wanted to replace with a Mul-T-Lock MT5+ Euro cylinder but I have just found out that the Whitco cylinder is a bit unique.

A few points about the Whitco cylinder.

*The cam on the Whitco cylinder will only move for about 170 odd degrees of rotation (straight down to almost straight up).
*The key will turn about 340 degrees from stop to stop.
*The cam is a Floating/Lazy cam as I have found out, seems to be very popular for the Whitco locks here in Australia.
*The cam can be moved about 170 odd degrees without the key inserted.


I have a CISA Euro cylinder that has a 'locked cam' (cam is locked to the key plug in its entire rotation) that I have tried to install.

I believe most Euro cylinders are like this.

The door will lock and I am able to remove the key, However, when I unlock the door I am unable to remove the key as the plug has not returned to the 'home' position. Basically it acts like a key retaining lock.

The other issue with using a Euro cylinder with a locked cam is that I cannot use the internal locking lever as the cam on the cylinder is locked.


I have asked a few sellers about the Mul-T-Lock MT5+ Euro cylinders to see if they have locked cams and one said it is completely locked to the plug and another said there is about 90 degrees of free rotation.

From eyeballing the key position with the CISA cylinder is I need about 90-100 degrees of free rotation to be able to have the plug return 'home' so I can remove the key.

I was hoping if someone could please clear this up.

I would really like to use the MT5+ cylinder.

Thanks

[globallockytoo]

you can purchase purpose built MTL cylinders in Oz. But why would you when Bilock is so much better?

[Michelin Man]

I was hoping not to buy them here as everything here is so much more expensive. Although I would like to know of such a place that would have them.

The Bilock is good but I just can't stand the look of the key. If I wanted to spend more money I'd just go Abloy Protec or EVVA something.

I have sent Mul-T-Lock themselves an email but have yet to receive a reply.

[Michelin Man]

Also. I just thought. Even if I did get a Bilock, Abloy or EVVA euro cylinder it looks like I'll have the same problem.

[Squelchtone]

Does Lockwood offer anything that would be compatible with Whitco?
Perhaps this one: https://www.lsc.com.au/Products/Locks/C ... 553CP.html

and for everyone's reference, I believe this is what you currently have
http://www.whitco.com.au/en/site/whitco ... -Lazy-Cam/

I know you said you contact Mul-t-Lock, check out this PDF file from ASSA Abloy, owners of Whitco and maybe contact them to see if one of their other brands is available in Lazy Cam profile cylinder for a screen door.
http://www.assaabloy.com.au/Local/AU/Do ... alogue.pdf

good luck,
Squelchtone

UPDATE: I found that Lockwood sells Lockwood MT5 (Mul-t-Lock MT5) and Lockwood Twin (Assa Twin) in lazy cam cylinders, (ASSA Abloy likes to share lock designs with their other umbrella companies) look at page 16/17 of this PDF for the part numbers http://www.assaabloy.com.au/Local/AU/Do ... alogue.pdf

Security Door Cylinder and Turn Euro Lazy Cam
Used in various security door locks including Lockwood 8653, Whitco Tasman and Leichhardt Locksets. Retainer screw is 3/16” BSW thread and
32mm long

[Michelin Man]

Thanks for the info Squelchtone!

Yeah, I was aware of the Lockwood MT5+, I was surprised when I first saw it. I have seen that they offer them in a lazy cam in both left and right handed configurations for some reason.

The only problem again is getting them through dealers that deal with the Lockwood MT5+ (which seem to be very few), and over here it would probably cost as much as getting a EVVA MCS setup (We pay some of the highest prices for items, eg. look at our Luxury car tax, unbelievable...) then plus that on top of what the dealer makes and it just becomes out of reach for me.

I liked the Mul-T-Lock version for several reasons.

*Cheaper than Lockwood MT5+
*Available online (some places can key them alike and to existing MT5+ systems, since I don't plan to get all of them at the same time)
*Offer a nice range of products that I can have that are keyed alike IE, screen door, dead bolt, gate lock and knobs.
*I like the shape of the keys (I know this sounds odd, but I do hahaha)


Another state in Australia (Victoria) uses the Lockwood MT5+ for their electricity meter boxes. I can purchase some Lockwood MT5+ locks for about the same price as the Mul-T-Lock but they are all master keyed.


Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the cam or swap in a cam from the Whitco cylinder into the MT5+ cylinder?

or does anyone have a Mul-T-Lock MT5+ Euro cylinder that can check to see if their cam is fixed.

There is a video that shows exactly what I would like, but the actual video is showing off something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILDwtrMa7E

[GWiens2001]

Think the problem with pricing in Oz has to do with the country being on the bottom of the planet and therefore upside down. That means a lock that for us costs $11.99 would cost you $66.11. But at least you all have the coolest animals.

Gordon

[Michelin Man]

I just did the math, and you know what? I think you're absolutely right!

Ps. Here is a video of two Kangaroos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRddLDynsCs

[MBI]

[Squelchtone]

[globallockytoo]

Modifying the cam is not hard, if youre prepared to try. Contact API Locksmiths in your state. I know a couple of guys at the Melbourne office who can do it for you.

Otherwise (if they're still going), Thomastown Central Locksmiths in Victoria were one of the first MTL dealers in Australia (before MTL opened their Bayswater facility).

Modifying the cam is not that difficult, you just cut out either half or a quarter of the inside part of the cam.

If youre in SA I might be able to find a colleague for you. LMK

[globallockytoo]

I just did the math, and you know what? I think you're absolutely right!

Ps. Here is a video of two Kangaroos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRddLDynsCs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_agtNKbgSfI

[Michelin Man]

Modifying the cam is not hard, if youre prepared to try. Contact API Locksmiths in your state. I know a couple of guys at the Melbourne office who can do it for you.

Otherwise (if they're still going), Thomastown Central Locksmiths in Victoria were one of the first MTL dealers in Australia (before MTL opened their Bayswater facility).

Modifying the cam is not that difficult, you just cut out either half or a quarter of the inside part of the cam.

If youre in SA I might be able to find a colleague for you. LMK

I was hoping to get one right off the bat that would work, but at the moment it does seem like I will need to do that.

I'm in NSW unfortunately.

I'm just worried about taking the plug out (even if not completely, just enough to clear the cam). I had a similar idea of either modifying it or swapping the cam.

Mul-T-Lock sure do like to take their sweet time to reply to emails, It's been over a week.

[Squelchtone]

Mul-T-Lock sure do like to take their sweet time to reply to emails, It's been over a week.

We've all given you solid workable advice man, but it seems you are stuck on one idea; which is to order a lazy cam profile cylinder direct from Mul-T-Lock. Not sure how else we can help you. Try emailing another address or finding a Mul-T-Lock rep's direct email address in case you are just emailing a generic address on their page or using a contact us form.

From some light reading I was doing this morning, I don't believe Mul-t-Lock makes a lazy cam profile cylinder, and they will probably tell you to go call Lockwood and get their version of the MT5 since it is made for the Australian market and they knew enough to make a Whitco retrofit with lazy cam, whereas Mul-t-Lock sells to many other countries where that cam style on a profile cylinder is not a normal option.

good luck,
Squelchtone

[Michelin Man]

I appreciate the advice you guys have given. I just don't want to purchase a 140 odd dollar lock and start screwing round with it. I'll have to start checking out some threads on how to take apart the Mul-T-Lock Euro cylinders.

Lockwood MT5+ maybe, but probably not now. I really like the Mul-T-Lock MT5+ because of the key and price like I said.

The only thing I wanted to know was if someone could confirm if any of the Mul-T-Lock Euro cylinders had 90 degrees of 'freeplay' or if the seller doesnt know what he was on about.

If anyone watched that other video I linked that shows a Mul-T-Lock Euro cylinder rotating, that kinda gives me an idea that maybe something does exist from Mul-T-Lock.


I have contacted Mul-T-Lock themselves, Mul-T-Lock Online, ebay sellers, even Advocate asking about ther ABS Euro cylinders.

But yeah, Thanks guys!