Multi-tier rekey

[Self-Taught 4731]

I am new to all things locksmith. I have become interested in lock-picking though (I'm probably going to get a sparrows beginner kit, thinking about the Tuxedo) and my dad recently asked me to re-key his office building in a simple 3-tier system (he would have the GMK and the building is split up and rented out to multiple other companies so the heads of those companies would then be handed the masters for their portion of the office and then all locks would have their own change under a master). It's a simple system and doesn't need to be very secure (he made the point the doors are glass anyway the locks are simply for privacy) so I was leaning towards a progression system (I've seen it used and explained in other places on here as a tpp however based on lockwiki's definition it was defined as a partial because some of the pins remain constant while only others change...is this correct?). I have a general grasp of how this system would work, but I need to gain more understanding of it before I create bittings for each of the locks. I have no tools whatsoever so in order to accomplish this I would need:
a plug removal tool
pin tweezers
a plug follower
a case to house pins and work from
a list of pin sizes for brand locks based on cuts
a pin kit (I will be dealing with US lock, Kwikset, and others so I would need to make sure the pins were universal among)
a key machine (my dad has one, but I don't think it will cut from bitting code)
Am I missing anything? Also how should I go about gaining these supplies? (Is their a company that someone would suggest that makes quality items in this regard? Is there a rekey kit that contains all of these tools?)

Any information you could give me regarding the process of rekeying to the specifications provided or gaining the proper tools would be HIGHLY appreciated!

[cledry]

Answers are the same as in the other exact same thread. Why start a new thread?

[Divinorum]

I had recommended that he start his own thread when he originally asked the questions in the other thread as to not go off topic but now they have already answered there. I guess if anyone has anything to add they can add it here.

[Self-Taught 4731]

I had recommended that he start his own thread when he originally asked the questions in the other thread as to not go off topic but now they have already answered there. I guess if anyone has anything to add they can add it here.

I had planned on starting a new thread when you originally suggested it...but I just now got around to figuring out how and where. In hindsight I guess it was a little pointless.
Since I already made it though, I guess I'll go ahead and address the actual bitting. I was planning on doing a simple progression system (I am still a little unsure of how to set one up), but can somebody please explain an RCR system to me? I heard it mentioned earlier in the other thread, but haven't seen it explained.

[Divinorum]

via lock wiki
http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Master_key

Partial Position Progression
A method of master keying in which certain positions are progressed while other positions are held constant. With split-pin master keying, this means there are certain cuts on the keys which are the same on every key in the entire system and there are certain chambers in the locks which never have master pins in them. This method is very useful for small systems.

Rotating Constant Progression System
A method of master keying in which some positions are progressed and at least one position is held constant but the location of the constant is not fixed. This method is very useful for producing two-level systems with large numbers of change keys. Surprisingly, it produces more available change keys than total position progression does, in most cases. As with partial position progression, every key has at least one cut in common with the top master key and most locks have at least one chamber with no master pins in it.

[Self-Taught 4731]

Rotating Constant Progression System
A method of master keying in which some positions are progressed and at least one position is held constant but the location of the constant is not fixed. This method is very useful for producing two-level systems with large numbers of change keys. Surprisingly, it produces more available change keys than total position progression does, in most cases. As with partial position progression, every key has at least one cut in common with the top master key and most locks have at least one chamber with no master pins in it.

How would you create this kind of system? Just for an example: lets say you have a 52475 grand master key, how would you alter that for master and change keys?

[billdeserthills]

I read over all your other threads and I just wanna say I think it's sooo cute that you seem to be interested in doing a job that many locksmiths, who have spent years honing their craft, would be afraid to even attempt. At that same time, I almost get that feeling like you are basically standing on one foot, while you try to assimilate this information. It looks like you are all ready to have your Dad spend hundreds of dollars on tooling and yet you don't seem to have the faintest idea of how or why a master-key system works and how it is that it keeps the wrong key from working. Without a set of depth keys and a key machine made to cut those keys, let alone the intimate knowledge of master-keying you are about ready (maybe) to do a really bad job of out of the box master-keying, which is when someone with little to no training simply takes a box of pre-cut keys and without the ability to write up a master-key chart, without even the ability to look at a series of key bittings and understand why certain keys should not be used, not to mention which of those same bittings will overlap, causing an unintended key to work in a lock, where it should not have. I have wound up being the guy who fixed several jobs, where some new locksmith with a box of pre-cut keys and almost zero real training made a huge mess. I never did mind, as it is nice to make money and whenever I can show that the last guy was the one who screwed the pooch, I find it makes my new client look to me in a new, better light.

Anyway, to sum up what I am saying in economical terms, for masterkeying 20 locks and drawing up a masterkey system, along with 2 keys per lock I would charge about $500. Now it looks like you will need a key machine, let's say a junky model ilco 008 costs about $300 used. Now you need depth keys, key blanks, assorted tools & a pin kit plus G-d knows what else, I bet your Dad is gonna actually spend more than the $500 I woulda charged and You haven't even begun to understand just how to draw up a master-key chart, let alone which keys are not up to MACS, or are unsuitable for other reasons. Just because You picked a lock has zero bearing on your ability to understand a master-key system. Years ago I trained many folks in basic locksmithing, the part I taught about lock picking was always taught last, as I find it some of the least important info a real locksmith needs to complete their job.

Good luck on your attempt to cajole someone into providing you with a master key schedule and if you do, well here's some more good luck on the folks in your Dads building feeling charitable while your Dad tries to assure them that locks only exist to keep "honest people honest" and that the personal effects they had stolen, due to your inability to properly understand a craft that you had little to zero knowledge of, are unimportant.

[globallockytoo]

very nicely put Bill!

Master keying is the realm of the professional locksmith.
Others wanting to bypass what the professional is deliberately trained for is pretty insulting in my opinion.
Yes. You can do it yourself. yes it is possible. But why? when professionals are deliberately geared up, deliberately trained in the methods and will (often) be more affordable than creating your own designs.
Plus - are you going to be repairing and servicing all the issues as they arise?