Looking fo some assistance

[Traveler]

Hey guys,

Im new here and been reading some threads, read the MIT guide, and watched the Visual Guide to lock picking video. Great info but I am still having major problems and can't seem to "feel" the pins as described in the material i have read and watched.

This is what I have been trying with, mostly the hook and half diamond about 98% of the time:


Three days ago, I tried for 5.5 hrs to pick these two locks with no success:


Its locks a local lock smith gave me to practice on. I know nothing about them and could very well contain security pins which is the reason I can not open it but I can't feel or hear the pins set. Not even a false set.

Two days ago, I was messing with a master lock no 5 that's on a chain in my back yard. I messed around with it for 2hrs and opened in 3 times. All three times were on accident. Accident you say? I had the tension wrench and pick in the lock and looked at my ceiling while screaming cusses out of fustration and the lock opened in my hand. This happened all three times. I can't go around saying cuss words at the top of my lungs everytime I want to open a lock. All i know is I ripped the pick out of the lock. I haven't been able to open it a fourth time. I haven't cussed either.

Yesterday, I went out and bought a master lock no 3 brand new. I was hoping I can get a feel for the pins better being it was new. After 3 hrs yesterday and 2 hrs today, I havent opened it. I been primarily to SPP it to get that feel. I cannot find that binding pin. I do feel one that is slightly hard to push but can't get it to click on the sheer line. The only clicking I hear is when I over pick it and put too much tension.

That brings me to the next issue. Tension. I have tried so light that the pins do not stay up/down (depending which way I am holding the lock) to so hard the pins get stuck and I have marks from the wrench on my finger (i know its too hard but I had to try everything) and EVERYTHING in between with no success.

With all this being said, can someone please point me in the right direction other than having me do what I have already done/been doing?

Thanks guys,

-Anthony

P.S.-back to trying the ML no 3

[globallockytoo]

those 2 cylinders are just a key in knob cylinder and a mailbox lock. Quite straightforward..;..the secret is all in the turning pressure.

[GWiens2001]

And sometimes a lock just won't open unless you 'talk dirty' to it.

Would suggest getting a deadbolt or rekeyable padlock, take it apart, and put it together with only one pin stack at a time. Recommend it be the pin furthest in the lock. When you have the feel of one pin stack, add the next. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Gordon

[Tighran]

You're on the right track in terms of tools; those are the only 4 I really use much and even then mostly just the hook.

What can you feel in the lock? For example can you feel where the pins are, can you isolate and push up an individual pin? Can you feel the wards inside it and the shape of the keyway, like where it meets the channels that hold the pins? It might help to just poke all around in there until you have a good idea how everything is shaped and where everything is.

Unfortunately, a lot of it just comes down to practice and experience. I'm still developing a feel for the binding pin, and I've been practicing for a few months. Some locks are very obvious about the binding pin while others aren't. Similarly, tension can vary a lot from one lock to the next. I have some that only require the lightest touch, while others you can crank down on pretty hard and feel things pop into place. Vary it up, start light and if all the pins just slide back down, slowly increase your tension. Or just mix it up and see what seems to work best.
If you're still having trouble, you might want to try finding a practice lock or something that can be easily repinned. I wouldn't recommend a cutaway since you should know how they work from the MIT guide, and you're working to develop a sense of feel, not sight. But if you have a lock that you can take out all but 2 pins to start, that would let you play with the tension and see how much you need before one of them starts to stand out as the binding pin, and then see how much tension it needs to stay in place. Then add another pin stack, and see how things change. And so on.

Also don't get frustrated... if you're having a hard time with something put it aside and come back to it later. Having locks with unknown elements can make things difficult to start with. For example, the cylinder on the left looks a lot like an American core... These tend to have security pins as well as a restrictive keyway, and I have yet to open mine. I also have a Master Number 3 that... I struggle to pick. I can rake it in a matter of seconds, and I can pick locks that are generally considered more difficult than it, but for some reason it just gives me problems. It's a little irritating to know that it gives me problems, but it hasn't stopped me from picking tougher locks. I'll still go back and try it every so often, but I know that it's not stopping me from learning or being a better picker. Just keep at it and you will get better.

[Traveler]

Thanks for the fast reply guys.

I will look into getting something rekeyable. I will need to read up on how to do so. The master lock no 3 needs a decent amount of turning force compared to my entrance door. Maybe I need to give extra pressure. How are you supposed to know the amount of tension if you don't know the amount it takes with a key? You can be wasting tons of time using the typical light pressure meanwhile you need much more. How do you figure this out?

I have tried raking the ML no 3 a bunch of times at different speeds. Its not working out for me and it is getting frustrating watching the people on youtube do it in a second. I am doing the same thing they do except my doesnt open.
One other thing. I notice as I push each individual pin down, it gives much more resistance as I move back because the pick is pushing down the ones in front (ie; i push the 3rd pin down, the pick is also pushing pin 1 and 2 down, and when I push 4 down its pushing pins 3, 2, and 1 slightly as well). Is this normal? It makes it harder trying to find the binding pin.

I wish I knew not to get a cutaway lock. I purchased two southord cutaways, one with standard pins and another with spool pins. I wanted to feel and hear the pins set by looking at it actually setting.

[billdeserthills]

Far as turning tension goes, I use the minimum amount that it takes to hold the tension wrench in place, and I prefer top of cylinder tension, as that will also give you the best access to the keyway & the pins.
It's perfectly natural to find yourself getting upset and increasing the amount of tension, but I like to try to remember that the whole art of picking a lock is much like a magic trick, you cannot force it, try to let the magic flow. I think if you started with just one pin in your lock, you could easily work on your tension