Amsec Key Safe

[ggpaintballer]

I work in IT and was doing a consult for a wiring job at a new client location. While walking through the building I came across this safe in a wall. The manager said I could have it and I jumped at the opportunity. I don't think the combo pasted on the front is correct but I could be wrong. I assume the combo got swapped with a change key? Any ideas where to start? Whats the opening process? I think it's combo first, then turn key, then spin dial to retract the bolt. Any chance there some kind of a pick to control, or is all the changing is done once the safe is already open. Thanks for any input. There's something inside. Probably just some old bank records, but you never know.

Pic of said safe:
http://imgur.com/a/qU3bI

[Squelchtone]

That's a sweet score!

Based on my resources it is an import safe stamped with the STAR name. The key is your handle, once the combination is dialed, then the key is turned to the right and that retracts the single bolt enough to open the door. unlike other safes where you dial and dial and then the dial stops dead and you throw a handle, this lock is direct entry and you will dial and dial and stop the dial on a certain number, THEN use the key lock. if you picked that bottom lock clockwise and kept pretty heavy tension on it in the clockwise direction, the fence would be trying to enter the wheel gates behind the dial, and if you then slowly turned the dial you would notice the lower key lock tension wrench moves further at some spots on the dial, because at some point you will come across a true gate (one of the combination numbers) OR false gates cut around one of the wheels. since you seem to have some combination numbers on that decal but lack the correct dialing order, after you pick the lock clockwise and are pressing the wrench pretty hard , not to what degree you turned the wrench from 12 olock, are you at 1 oclock now, at 2? at 3? did it turn all the way down to 5 oclock? as you keep pressing on it, dial the dial to 80 and take note of of how many degrees the key plug has turned, now dial 84, 85, 86, and also make notes, then dial to 90. if that combination in the photo is the real combo, you may find the keyway moved a little further closkwise at 86. If it did not, try the same test on the other numbers on that decal.,

This kind of lock was not typically changeable by the end user, so the number on the front is probably correct, you just have to figure out if the dialing order is correct as far as number of turns and in which direction.

hope this gets you started,
Squelchtone

[1mrchristopher]

Such luck! Any day somebody gives you a free safe is a pretty good day. Let us know when you get it open.

[KPick]

Yeah. Let us know what kind of crazy amount of cold hard cash you found inside lol.

[cledry]

Such luck! Any day somebody gives you a free safe is a pretty good day. Let us know when you get it open.

You might be surprised how many people give away safes.

I remember one account called us up one day and said we have 22 double door deposit safes we would like removed. Some are bolted down and none have the combinations or keys. We were out the next day and removed them all. Opening them is easy as there are holes in the bottom where the bolts go which is convenient for a scope.

A couple of weeks back a fellow offered us for free, two pallets of small hotel safes that use Medeco cam locks.

A NSP we do work for will have us remove and dispose of CSS safes when a new one is sent to the store.

BTW, if you want a free Cary safe from the 1920s stop by my shop and it is yours.

[mseifert]

BTW, if you want a free Cary safe from the 1920s stop by my shop and it is yours.

I lived in Orlando I would be right over to get the safe..

[cledry]

BTW, if you want a free Cary safe from the 1920s stop by my shop and it is yours.

I lived in Orlando I would be right over to get the safe..

You would make me so happy. I'm about to load it into the dumpster!

[ggpaintballer]

I've been messing with it a bit. So with the lock picked, applying pressure, the dial will spin and then stick in between 61 and 66. My knowledge of safe manipulation is limited, but I'd guess that that's related to the 64 listed in the combo. Squelchtone said it was an import, so it wouldn't surprise me to have 5 digits of play in the cuts. Does that mean that within the disk pack, the disk cut for a 64 gate is sticking out the most? With the fence stuck in 64 first how to I go about finding the order/ number of spins/ direction to open it? I get a small rotation on the lock core once I snap into the 61-66 gate. To come back out in the clockwise direction is fairly easy. In the other direction it would require force. I need to let up on my tension wrench to get the dial moving again. Thanks.

[cledry]

That isn't a key change safe. I bet it hasn't been changed.

4 times R to 1st number
3 times L to 2nd number
2 times R to 3rd number
1 time L to 4th number

Then turn key.

Reverse the direction of the turns if this doesn't work, but based on the instructions on the label it should.

If neither works you can progress the safe open adding a specific number to the original combination will give you the correct combination in no time at all.

[JoshuaWest]

BTW, if you want a free Cary safe from the 1920s stop by my shop and it is yours.

It's a long drive from Canada, wish it was closer to me too. :'(

[Squelchtone]

That isn't a key change safe. I bet it hasn't been changed.

4 times R to 1st number
3 times L to 2nd number
2 times R to 3rd number
1 time L to 4th number

Then turn key.

Reverse the direction of the turns if this doesn't work, but based on the instructions on the label it should.

If neither works you can progress the safe open adding a specific number to the original combination will give you the correct combination in no time at all.

Hey ggpaintballer, have you had a chance to try this and did you ever get it open?

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[ggpaintballer]

I got in, but it wasn't elegant...
Cledry had the rlrl correct. Squelch was right about the dialing order. The last 2 digits on the combo were flipped from what it shows on the front of the safe. Wound up having some old papers, extra nuts and bolts for the safe, and a small bag with some pennies in it. Pennies weren't old.

This safe was always destined to be used for me to practice manipulation. I have no experience with it prior to this. I don't think destructive entry methods are allowed in this sub but suffice it to say I now own a lovely safe door and a boroscope. Couldn't see anything with the boroscope so I used more extreme measures. I hope they didn't use asbestos to fireproof that thing.

I did wind up getting into that payphone I posted about without smashing it and It looks awesome in my parents basement.

[Squelchtone]

I got in, but it wasn't elegant...
Cledry had the rlrl correct. Squelch was right about the dialing order. The last 2 digits on the combo were flipped from what it shows on the front of the safe. Wound up having some old papers, extra nuts and bolts for the safe, and a small bag with some pennies in it. Pennies weren't old.

This safe was always destined to be used for me to practice manipulation. I have no experience with it prior to this. I don't think destructive entry methods are allowed in this sub but suffice it to say I now own a lovely safe door and a boroscope. Couldn't see anything with the boroscope so I used more extreme measures. I hope they didn't use asbestos to fireproof that thing.

I did wind up getting into that payphone I posted about without smashing it and It looks awesome in my parents basement.

Hey, you go in at least! I had a little Amsec gas station under the counter safe that I bought on craigslist for $75 bucks without the combo, drove to Long Island to pick it up, drove back up to MA and couldn't manipulate it open for a month so I finally did a little DE on the container and scoped the change key hole, and now it's open.

I like using a real door for manipulation practice, mount it in a vice and install other locks onto it as needed.

Happy dial spinning,
Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

I got in, but it wasn't elegant...
Cledry had the rlrl correct. Squelch was right about the dialing order. The last 2 digits on the combo were flipped from what it shows on the front of the safe. Wound up having some old papers, extra nuts and bolts for the safe, and a small bag with some pennies in it. Pennies weren't old.

This safe was always destined to be used for me to practice manipulation. I have no experience with it prior to this. I don't think destructive entry methods are allowed in this sub but suffice it to say I now own a lovely safe door and a boroscope. Couldn't see anything with the boroscope so I used more extreme measures. I hope they didn't use asbestos to fireproof that thing.

I did wind up getting into that payphone I posted about without smashing it and It looks awesome in my parents basement.

I think you are making a bad pick for a safe to use for manipulation, as this lock is pretty rare. I would think practice with an S&G 6730 type lock would teach you more relevant information
Also a locksmith registered with Amsec could have gotten you the combo this safe left the factory with and possibly a key, as well

[ggpaintballer]

Yeah. I have an s&g as well. This safe is weird because it requires the lock to be picked before you can start futsing with the dial. I recognize there may have been easier ways that preserved the safe but I really wanted to get into this one myself. If it has been a real safe as opposed to a fire safe the amsec locksmith may have gotten a call anyway.