Can't complete the "360" turn of the lock

[JenningsSVK]

There is this "old" pin-tumbler lock from communist era, probably not opened by key in 10-30 years. this is an exterior staircase door.
The problem is that after successfully picking the lock and turning the bolt beyond 180, the bolt cant turn any further (note: i know about pushing down the pins on reaching 180, that is NOT the problem, i get the bolt beyond 180 degrees). on about 210 the bolt starts giving really large resistance, and i can hear some kind of spring in the door when i try to fight the resistance, when i release the torque the bolt gets pushed back to around 180. It feels like when you use a key to open an unlocked door instead of the handle, however, the door is not unlocked. the resistance force is so big (probably not even overcomable), that i bent a few tension wrenches and broke one and the lock did not give in. my question is what can be the cause of this problem? is this common? can it be "fixed" somehow?

[Valdo]

Have you tried picking the lock both with tension to the left and to the right?

[JenningsSVK]

Have you tried picking the lock both with tension to the left and to the right?

Actually, i have not, i don't know where you are from, but i have never in my life encountered an euro lock that would unlock into the frame ( if the frame is to the left side of the lock, it unlocks clockwise, if to the right then counter-clockwise). well, this may be some exception, i will be sure to try it, i was just afraid that i would lock it even more and i would not be able to even get back where i was.

[Valdo]

Have you tried picking the lock both with tension to the left and to the right?

Actually, i have not, i don't know where you are from, but i have never in my life encountered an euro lock that would unlock into the frame ( if the frame is to the left side of the lock, it unlocks clockwise, if to the right then counter-clockwise). well, this may be some exception, i will be sure to try it, i was just afraid that i would lock it even more and i would not be able to even get back where i was.

I'm from europe too, but you never know, and I believe there is no risk in trying it, normally if it doesn't open, the cam will just not move past a certain point and you can turn it back safely,
some people unlock locks like this and urn the lock in the other direction with a plug-spinner (although in your case it might be dangerous to use one, granted, I don't know a whole lot about plug-spinners)

[JenningsSVK]

I will be ssure to try it next time i get a chance. for the time being,if anyone has any more ideas i will be glad to hear them
(Note : i totally forgot about this : there is a same kind of door to the same staircase which i also have attempted to lockpick, and, the result was the same, though after applying enough torque(a really really lot torque, when it finally gave in i banged my hand so hard it tore my skin) the lock gave in and unlocked (but i had to pick it and spin it around again to unlock it second time, same process, but a little bit easier) (i was using a self made VERY thick tension wrench made out of 6 side wrench, and it broke)

[GWiens2001]

Have seen some keyways in which turning one way, the driver pins are pushed up into the keyway at the 180 degree point, but turning it the other way there is enough slope to allow the key to continue turning.

Try this... pick it to where you have been picking it, and turn it until it stops (as you have been doing). Now take the back of a diamond rake or other flat piece of metal and press the driver pins down while continuing to turn the plug.

Let us know if that works.

Gorodn

[Valdo]

Have seen some keyways in which turning one way, the driver pins are pushed up into the keyway at the 180 degree point, but turning it the other way there is enough slope to allow the key to continue turning.

Try this... pick it to where you have been picking it, and turn it until it stops (as you have been doing). Now take the back of a diamond rake or other flat piece of metal and press the driver pins down while continuing to turn the plug.

Let us know if that works.

Gorodn

(note: i know about pushing down the pins on reaching 180, that is NOT the problem, i get the bolt beyond 180 degrees)

[GWiens2001]

Started reading other replies rather than completely reading the OP.

Gordon

[JenningsSVK]

Thanks for replies so far.

This is actually very frustrating mainly because i was able to pick the lock, and nowhere in any literature i have read (MIT guide for instance) i have found any mention of something like this. it may be possible there is something broken inside the door, but i can't see any rational way that something could be broken inside, and also, the second door that i managed to get through. i will try lubricating it where possible, but i don't think that can help, i don't believe lubrication can solve a stuck plug that is held by such a force to bend an allen key made into a torsion wrench. the end that gets inserted into the lock is twisted to 90 degrees from where it was on one of these (i actually made them just for the purpose to try opening this lock cause the keyway is wide enough and i needed something that can withstand the force, and they did not withstand it anyway. very frustrating. :'(

[hag3l3]

Mayhaps this might help....
I have encountered in the past, a few euro locks with a unique feature; A double throw ability. What you are describing reminds me of my first encounter with one.
Pick-turn till stop, pick-turn till stop, pick-turn till open.
this is what I found to work.
also, on old locks, I find that if you liberally spray them with a good penetrating lubricant, and move your pick in and out to get the lubricant up towards the springs; then let it soak a minute, your will receive much better feedback.
Hope this helps....

[JenningsSVK]

what you described sounds very very familiar to what i encountered, however, that would stop the movement of the plug totally. what i encounter is that you can move the plug, but it "springs" back (the best way to compare it is like on a padlock). it's like you are opening the last "stage", the stage when the lock will pull the (im sorry, i can speak english well but i'm not native, and i have no idea how few of the things are called) the thing that prevents the door from being opened when it is NOT locked (like when you use the handle to open the door). (and yes, i tried pushing the door to try if it is not open, it was not.
It came on my mind that it is possible that lock has nothing to do with the problem, and that when i push it to the furthest possible point, i may have pushed back the spring that holds the (thing that holds the door) into the lock, but the (thing that holds the door) may be disattached from the spring, and only thing that is left to do is to physically push it inside to make the door open. no other rational explanation comes to my mind.

[billdeserthills]

I have found on old, unused doors where the latch becomes stuck, from the weight of the door. Anyhow my first step would be to spray that lock real good with any light spray and try to see if lifting, pushing, pulling on the door gives some feeling of turning on the lock cylinder.

There could also be something you need to press in deeper in the keyhole, before the cylinder will turn. Have you checked with a pick down the keyhole for something that becomes spring-loaded when you get to 180?
Many hook type locks seem to extend, before they unlock. If the door has shifted it can jam up the unlocking function, until the force is relieved.

[JenningsSVK]

i will be sure to try out when i get a chance, also to state what i forgot to mention : the bolt is (hell, i don't even know how it is called in my language) the kind of bolt that has a kind of a wheel in itself (it can slide into the frame of the door when you want to close it while unlocked, but it can also slide out if you want to open it - no knob on the door, just a handle to push/pull it, don't know if this makes any difference but it just came on my mind that it is another detail that i forgot to mention.

Have you checked with a pick down the keyhole for something that becomes spring-loaded when you get to 180?

Yes i have, there is absolutely nothing in the keyway, except my torque wrench when i get to 180 (the driver pins don't bind either, the plug slides them out of the way no problem), and what i think you are referring to (the little thing in the middle that decides which side of the lock is attached to the bolt mechanism)? well i had to push that in when i picked the lock before i could turn it beyond 1 o'clock so if we referr to the same thing, that should not be the case.

[_Forest_Berry_]

My recommendation if nothing of the above replies work is to make yourself a little thermite it's basically rust and aluminum. It burns at 3500 C and it should burn a hole in the lock I don't know why you are trying to get in but if it is really necessary thermite or call a professional. And it would have been a easier for us to help if you post some pictures and like someone said maybe it is the force of the door that is keeping you from a sweet victory so if you put an crowbar under it and then apply a small amount of force on it maybe it will turn idk gl

[JenningsSVK]

Big thanks to all of you, I will try all of the above and report my findings